Using psychoacoustic theory to create even more epic drops?

[GenericNameHere]

Hey, I'm new here, and I've been "producing" -- mostly just watching Youtube tutorials once a month, ripping apart flp's, and fiddling with a couple knobs -- for the last five months, and I've only recently took an interest in dubstep - two months ago.

Now that useless introduction aside, I have a question that is really self-evident from the thread, but seeing as this could be something even noobs should potentially learn, I'll take my time - and yours - to explain in a little more detail.

I've read an article on mixing the low end on SoundOnSound.com, about ten minutes ago, that somehow turned into a quick lesson on psychoacoustics -- those guys sure have a way of going on tangeants ... informative, frustratingly dry tangeanst, but whatever. And I read that, and I quote, "There is a similar situation with our perception of pitch. As the sound pressure level increases, we perceive a slight drop in pitch that varies with frequency: the higher the level, and the lower the frequency of a sound, the greater the perceived drop in pitch."

Now what I'm wondering is if it's possible to use that information - that makes absolutely no sense to me ... I'm exaggerating ... can be used to make a drop of epic proportions without fucking up a mix.

Also the article said something about mid-range frequencies being the area where the human ear perceives the most detail, so ... I guess this won't make me get any friends over here ... Skrillex was really onto something with those mid-range wobbles, no? That's why his mixes sound so pristine ... again, I'm slightly exaggerating ... he uses the mid-range for wobbles because that area doesn't need to be overly loud to be heard, it's a sweet spot. This leaves a lot of headroom, no?

Anyway, what was meant by that article quote, and can it be used to create an epic drop?

[AxeD]

Of course you can apply psychoacoustic theory to music production. But not in this matter.

The frequency response of the human ear is something that every single mixing engineer has in mind when mixing tracks.

[GenericNameHere]

How so? You saying this can't be used to make the drop hit harder?

[Mason]

I've been fiddling knobs for the last five months

[alphacat]

The reality is that although it's scientific & sexy to invoke 'psychoacoustic theory', it's already been done by musicians/composers for millenia within more or less established parameters: i.e., classical composers know some of these tricks, but they don't refer to them in clinical terminology so much. Put another way: the tricks and potential effects that can be had by "tricking" the ear thus are well known, but it's only been with the advent of psychoacoustics as an academic field that we understand how & why they work (or might work. There's a lot of push-pull between evolutionary bio peeps and cultural selection peeps as to why things are the way they are. But I digress...)

Bassnectar - regardless of how you feel about his music - is actually a pretty keen student of the applied side of this stuff in "bass music" tho. He talks about some of it in the OP here;

http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=262570

If you're serious about pursuing this on a scientific/academic level though, there's no finer resource than this book.

[AxeD]

How so? You saying this can't be used to make the drop hit harder?

No, turning up the gain will make things hit harder, but we're not trying to make people bleed here.
The quote simply says: The higher the sound pressure, the more our ears detect a varying difference in pitch that's not
actually in the sound source.

You can't really trick the human ear into hearing more bass than the medium allows, as every ear and listening situation
is completely different.

[SunkLo]

This phenomena just makes your bass seem slightly flat. It doesn't magically transpose it down an octave or something. You can, however, distort a subsonic sub and highpass it to produce the phantom fundamental effect.

I've been fiddling knobs for the last five months

[GenericNameHere]

How so? You saying this can't be used to make the drop hit harder?

No, turning up the gain will make things hit harder, but we're not trying to make people bleed here.
The quote simply says: The higher the sound pressure, the more our ears detect a varying difference in pitch that's not
actually in the sound source.

You can't really trick the human ear into hearing more bass than the medium allows, as every ear and listening situation
is completely different.

Who said anything about gain or usijg this on bass? I was wondering if this can be used to accompany the synth that brings down the drop, you know? Like how most dubstep artists use white noise to introduce the drop, but I don't prefer white noise as it is too "wide," you know? Maybe use this theory on a laser to drop it, coz like pitch shifting lasers always sounds good.

What do you think?

[GenericNameHere]

If it clarifies things in any way, I was talking about those pitch shifting lasers that drop right before a snare to create that "snap yo' neck as you head nod to this effect." See Ruffneck (Flex) by Skrillex for an example.

So can it be used in this manner, and how?

[NinjaEdit]

How to use this seems obvious to me. When your bass is sliding down an octave (before the section called a "bass drop"), you could have it start quiet and end loud, slightly exaggerating the range it dropped.

The problem is that it is contrary to the old trick of turning down the volume of the master by a few dBs, before the "bass drop," making appear louder. You could try doing both, of course.

[Dahneboy]

Hey, I'm new here, and I've been "producing" -- mostly just watching Youtube tutorials once a month, ripping apart flp's, and fiddling with a couple knobs -- for the last five months, and I've only recently took an interest in dubstep - two months ago.

Now that useless introduction aside, I have a question that is really self-evident from the thread, but seeing as this could be something even noobs should potentially learn, I'll take my time - and yours - to explain in a little more detail.

I've read an article on mixing the low end on SoundOnSound.com, about ten minutes ago, that somehow turned into a quick lesson on psychoacoustics -- those guys sure have a way of going on tangeants ... informative, frustratingly dry tangeanst, but whatever. And I read that, and I quote, "There is a similar situation with our perception of pitch. As the sound pressure level increases, we perceive a slight drop in pitch that varies with frequency: the higher the level, and the lower the frequency of a sound, the greater the perceived drop in pitch."

Now what I'm wondering is if it's possible to use that information - that makes absolutely no sense to me ... I'm exaggerating ... can be used to make a drop of epic proportions without fucking up a mix.

Also the article said something about mid-range frequencies being the area where the human ear perceives the most detail, so ... I guess this won't make me get any friends over here ... Skrillex was really onto something with those mid-range wobbles, no? That's why his mixes sound so pristine ... again, I'm slightly exaggerating ... he uses the mid-range for wobbles because that area doesn't need to be overly loud to be heard, it's a sweet spot. This leaves a lot of headroom, no?

Anyway, what was meant by that article quote, and can it be used to create an epic drop?

you sound like martin luther king really high

[AxeD]

I don't think any of this can be used, but yeah try it. You need a shit ton of level for these shifts to be audible and in the end
the listener will just change what you created entirely by listening on his own level with $3 earbuds.

If you think about the thousands of variables.. I mean even basic band recordings are interpreted completely different by every set of ears.

[SunkLo]

Not to mention it's just way easier to just actually pitch shift the synth.

It only works for bass anyway and like I said before, it's not a really radical difference. If you had a sustained low bass note you might want to pitch shift it up a tiny bit to make it sound in tune. That's pretty much all this is good for.

[GenericNameHere]

Yeah, I guess you're right, I still have much to learn. It's going to be fun experienting tho../

[lloydy]

The best way by far to give a drop more impact is volume.
Theres a thing that tv stations do with adverts to get the attention of the viewer and that is volume gain.Watch tv and you will notice adverts are near enough 99.9% of the time louder than the programme you were watching.
This too is very very effective with "drops" in music.A db or two can really add emphasise between two sections.

[SunkLo]

The best way by far to give a drop more impact is volume.
Theres a thing that tv stations do with adverts to get the attention of the viewer and that is volume gain.Watch tv and you will notice adverts are near enough 99.9% of the time louder than the programme you were watching.
This too is very very effective with "drops" in music.A db or two can really add emphasise between two sections.

I think that's more to do with excessive compression from the advertisers.

But yes volume or perceived volume can add significant impact.

[NinjaEdit]

^^^ Right, it's smashed with brickwall limiters. It makes your music sound like shit, though.

[SunkLo]

And advertisers don't give a shit if it sounds like garbage. They only care if you can still hear it when you walk to get food or take a piss. Sadly a lot of music is taking this approach too for no real reason. Not like you need to worry about dynamic range of radio. Not like you'd really need to worry about competing with the loudness of the previous song if everything was mixed sensibly. It's just a matter of trying to one up other songs with perceived volume instead of concentrating on making better music. No need for such excessive compression. It's not like your listeners should be walking away from the speakers to get munchies. (unless ya fi drop dem chron beats, ya feel mi chile?)

You can achieve a more natural form of compression by just adding in some low level supporting sounds. Or fade up a parallel compression send during a high energy part to give it extra oomph without smashing your transients.

Or....


now mind you this is high level stuff......





make it more interesting.

[lucidlfe]

The psychoacoustics apply to the room along with the sound, so I would think since every room is different, that it would not be able to hold evenly across multiple acoustic situations

[FAARE FACED]

Imo if you want a feel of power without having your sub at +10 dB, i found out that having 2 sines works kinda well.
e.g. a sine in the 40-45 (depending on the note ofc), the real sub
another side pitched up an octave, like 80-90 (still depending on the note).

This is "fake" power, and phase cancelation is a bitch but well, it work quite nice, giving a resonant feel.

Last point I found out while watching a tutorial from Black Sun Empire is using a "clipping" style distortion on your sub. In iZotope Trash, there is one called "clip harmonics" I think (it's clip something) and it works well at giving a power feeling too.