I think my room is untreatable

[Genevieve]

Made this thread at Gearslutz.

I made a last minute decision to just get good treatment for my room at get A7Xs instead of Adam A5Xs (everything from pro engineers I read said... get full range monitors, regardless of roomsize, and just use the built-in EQ shelve for the low end + treatment).

But I didn't get jack yet. Just seems like a huge decision so I'm putting off buying stuff before I've got more knowledge on this and I went through some of their stickies.

Anyway the thread I linked to speaks for itself. I know I'll get some pro-advice from Gearslutz, but I'm curious what some of you ninjas have to say.

Is my shitty ass room even worth treating? I think I'd be better off getting a great headphone amp and headphones instead and save up for some adequate monitors and get those later on. I would do my production with monitors and final mixdown on the headphones. Because I think my room is literally untreatable.

Thoughts?

[Eat Bass]

it would help if you posted the actual size of your room and if it's square or rectangle and you have a symmetrical place to put your desk. not sure why you'd ask for advice without at least giving the size of your room.

[Genevieve]

The second paragraph in the thread I linked states that I have +/- square meter room. My second post (that includes the picture of my room) says it's about 4 meters/13 feet by 3 meters/10 feet.

[Geey]

it would help if you posted the actual size of your room and if it's square or rectangle and you have a symmetrical place to put your desk. not sure why you'd ask for advice without at least giving the size of your room.

You should probably go call yourself eat a dick

The guy is asking for help and all you can do is try nit pick at someone.

You could of clicked his link before slewing tha guy.. Geeeeez some people

Edit. Sorry I can't help you out mate, fwiw i find production virtually impossible without monitors but some top producers make tunes solely on headphones.

Breakage used to make all his tunes on hd25's.

I'm sure someone on gearslutz will come with sound advice waaaay beyond my knowledge, big up

[Benji]

sound advice

[Eat Bass]

i wasnt nit picking i was asking a genuin question, but it did come off a bit dicky i didn't realize it. my bad gen

also, final mixdown on headphones is a bad idea. its ok to produce and rough mix with headphones, but final mix down your going to want monitors for sure. headphones just dont give as accurate of an image as monitors, and the mix doesn't transfer well on other speakers. however, headphones are great to produce on and for sound design and a good mix reference, because if you get a good pair they are very detailed and will reveal things that many monitors wont.

[Genevieve]

Well woah there!

I didn't think you came across as that dickish, but in my defense, I did provide all the details you asked for Still doe, thanks for havin' mah back Geey

Anyway, back on topic. I feel you Eat Bass, but this isn't a matter of 'what's optimal', but 'what's the best I can do in my room?' I don't have much to work with and while there are drawbacks mixing on cans, in my position, with my untreatable room, I think headphones beat out over monitors -- did you end up having a look at the thread I linked to Gearslutz?

And some headphones do translate quite well on mixdowns. There are stereo imaging issues, yeah, but I would get a flatter more accurate frequency response from headphones than I think would from monitors.

This is my take anyway. If there's a way for me to treat my room adequately enough to get some decent full range monitors, I am all ear and I'm pretty desperate for advice. But until then, I think good headphones would get me better results.

Like in a perfect world, I would have a treated room with good monitors AND good headphones obv :p

[Eat Bass]

Ultrasone pro 900s are really nice headphones. You can get em on eBay for like 300.

And my mistake I didn't even see the gearslutz thread I was on my iPhone and overlooked it. Sorry bud I feel like a dildo.

[Coolschmid]

it would help if you posted the actual size of your room and if it's square or rectangle and you have a symmetrical place to put your desk. not sure why you'd ask for advice without at least giving the size of your room.

You should probably go call yourself eat a dick

The guy is asking for help and all you can do is try nit pick at someone.

You could of clicked his link before slewing tha guy.. Geeeeez some people

Edit. Sorry I can't help you out mate, fwiw i find production virtually impossible without monitors but some top producers make tunes solely on headphones.

Breakage used to make all his tunes on hd25's.

I'm sure someone on gearslutz will come with sound advice waaaay beyond my knowledge, big up

You on your period?

[Genevieve]

Ultrasone pro 900s are really nice headphones. You can get em on eBay for like 300.

And my mistake I didn't even see the gearslutz thread I was on my iPhone and overlooked it. Sorry bud I feel like a dildo.

It's all good.

I'll put those Ultrasones on the list. I'm also looking at the Sennheiser HD 650

[outbound]

I'm also looking at the Sennheiser HD 650

... Want!

[VirtualMark]

Any room can be made to sound better, it just depends on how much time and money you want to put into it. In your case, as it's only a rental - is it worth messing around with? Personally I'd look at getting a better room first, and then treating it - especially since you can't modify this room. But as you said, the best solution would be to use full range monitors and install treatment, it just might not be practical in this case.

You could improve your speaker positions - they look too close to the wall and unsymmetrical. Again, I realise that it may not be practical to move them, but the current situation is far from ideal. I take it they're firing down the length of the room? Had you considered using the opposite wall? You've kinda reduced your dimensions even more as you're producing under the bed.

The problem with headphones is that they have 100% stereo isolation, so it's very easy to make a sound too wide that falls apart when you hear it on monitors. It's probably a good idea to produce on both your monitors and headphones, or check your mix in mono every now and then. I also find it hard to judge dynamics on headphones compared to good monitors, plus they can be more fatiguing on your ears. But then you can hear more detail and they're unaffected by room positions.

So in short, the best solution is usually a combination of headphones and monitors. And if you can afford it, treatment wouldn't hurt.

[Genevieve]

Any room can be made to sound better, it just depends on how much time and money you want to put into it. In your case, as it's only a rental - is it worth messing around with? Personally I'd look at getting a better room first, and then treating it - especially since you can't modify this room. But as you said, the best solution would be to use full range monitors and install treatment, it just might not be practical in this case.

You could improve your speaker positions - they look too close to the wall and unsymmetrical. Again, I realise that it may not be practical to move them, but the current situation is far from ideal. I take it they're firing down the length of the room? Had you considered using the opposite wall? You've kinda reduced your dimensions even more as you're producing under the bed.

The problem with headphones is that they have 100% stereo isolation, so it's very easy to make a sound too wide that falls apart when you hear it on monitors. It's probably a good idea to produce on both your monitors and headphones, or check your mix in mono every now and then. I also find it hard to judge dynamics on headphones compared to good monitors, plus they can be more fatiguing on your ears. But then you can hear more detail and they're unaffected by room positions.

So in short, the best solution is usually a combination of headphones and monitors. And if you can afford it, treatment wouldn't hurt.

I touched on all of this. The opposite wall is a window with a table built in and meter closet.

Monitors are positioned fine and symmetrical with tweeters at ear level, but I don't even care about this set of monitors. These are some shitty speakers I got before I even started producing. If I were to get new ones I would put them on stands and move the table off the wall more.

It's not a matter of affording, it's a simple matter of either not being allowed to put nail anything on the wall or the places where I can hang stuff off it, being obstructed by something else. I've considered ever position and this is the only viable one.

I'm willing to save up top dollar for this. It's not 'yo monitors or headphones', it's more.. given EVERYTHING that I explained about this room, can I treat it adequately to do any monitoring setup justice? Suppose not. So it'll have to be headphones.

[Today]

just learn your room and your monitors imo. I work with a dude who's made millions and millions of dollars on his production and people always expect him to have some out of this world rig, or at least a very dedicated workspace.... it's just a room of his house, with big glass pane windows and no room treatment whatsoever, a pair of Genelecs pointed ridiculously inward... like i know it's supposed to make a triangle toward the listener's ears, but he takes it to an extreme, it's almost like they're positioned on either side of his head pointed directly at either ear.

I know fluttering reflections can be annoying but tbh the only ones u need to watch for are those bouncing right off the tabletop if your speakers are sitting atop a desk. use nearfield monitors sitting very near to you.. you hear the important information on its first pass right from the cones to your eardrums. Cant get much simpler than that.

It works well for him, anyway