Multiband Soft Clipping vs Compression

[Artie_Fufkin]

Not just talking about harmonic distortion are you? Because compression distorts the dynamics.
Edit: I think we have different definitions of distortion.

[SunkLo]

The added harmonics are a byproduct of distortion of the waveform. Whether the wave's being clipped by a limiter, pushed into a foldback distortion, rounded off with a soft clipper, or squished with a compressor, they're all doing the same thing. Compressors just have an attack and release phase to try and be more transparent. It's all forms of distortion though, just different application. Run something heavy into a brickwall limiter and tell me you don't hear distortion. Look at a tape saturation preset on a waveshaper and it should be obvious that it's both compressing and adding harmonics.

[azuk]

I've just been using phase cancellation to remove to added harmonics

[Today]

sorry to be that guy OP but who the fuck cares who else does that....

Just make your records the way you think they should sound. if no one likes your beats or mixes, that's reason to change. If your mixes are terrific then get on with it. this is all a bunch of producer-broscience

[SunkLo]

I've just been using phase cancellation to remove to added harmonics

Wut

[azuk]

Use the distorted signal, invert the phase then lay that on top of the original, bounce to audio then lay it on top of the distorted copy.

[SunkLo]

So it sounds as if you never distorted it in the first place?

[Artie_Fufkin]

yeah.....you do realize you're getting the original signal back, right?

I think I get what you mean about compression vs. waveshaping now, SunkLo. Waveshaping can distort the signal in the middle of the cycles because it's always on(static) but compression - because it's initiated by something going over the threshold(not static) and has time specific attack and release curves - is supposed to be more transparent because it doesn't just cut in and alter the waveform. That's how compressors work, right? The attack and release have curves to fade in and out, right? But if the fade is too quick, it cuts the waveform and creates harmonics. The same with gates: if you abuse the parameters, you can get some nasty distortion. (actually experienced this one night at a concert and asked the sound guy what it was out of curiosity)

Motu, fair point. This nerdy talk isn't supposed to replace using your ears and the tools available to make a good mix, but some of us enjoy the technical stuff and having an understanding of what the tools actually do.

[SunkLo]

Yep, an infinity ratio compressor with 0 attack and release time would just be a hard clipper. Put a soft knee on that and you get a soft clipper. Negative ratios will give you foldback distortion. The timing components of the compressor just make it not as abrupt so it doesn't generate audible distortion.

[mromgwtf]

Well, it all depends on how we interpret compression. Are we talking about wave compression, or dynamic range compression. Because wave compression = distortion, but dynamic range compression ≠ distortion.

[Add9]

Well if you have a sine wave and you cut the top off of it, it becomes a pseudo-square wave. And of course square waves have harmonic content and sine waves don't... so yeah compression does cause additional harmonic content as far as I understand it.

[gαммα]

I've been softclipping the master of my recent tunes, adds a really nice warmth to the track.

Mr. Carmack is really good at doing this, most of his tunes have audible "distortion" yet it still sounds clean as hell
Soundcloud

what I do is just stick a soft clipper on the master then turn up the master until it pushes the softclipper a bit, not too much tho

[mromgwtf]

Well if you have a sine wave and you cut the top off of it, it becomes a pseudo-square wave. And of course square waves have harmonic content and sine waves don't... so yeah compression does cause additional harmonic content as far as I understand it.

1. Sine wave DOES have harmonic content
2. Cutting the top of the wave is called hard clip.
3. Compression is not doing a hard clip.

[therealillume]

I've been softclipping the master of my recent tunes, adds a really nice warmth to the track.

Mr. Carmack is really good at doing this, most of his tunes have audible "distortion" yet it still sounds clean as hell
Soundcloud

what I do is just stick a soft clipper on the master then turn up the master until it pushes the softclipper a bit, not too much tho

You got any idea how carmack gets his snares to pop so hard? That track has some pretty nice snares, but the snares he uses in his other stuff blows my mind.

[SunkLo]

1. Sine wave DOES have harmonic content

No it doesn't. Break a sine wave down into its constituent partials with a DFT and count how many sine waves there are. There's only one because that's what the wave was to begin with. C'mon man, this is pretty fundamental.

Compressors are doing something closer to soft clipping. It's all acting on the same wave so I don't get your distinction between wave or dynamic range compression. The only difference is the time component with a compressor. Have you tried setting a compressor to 0 attack and infinite ratio? Tell me that's not identical to hard clipping. Put a soft knee on it and tell me it's not soft clipping. This is where I'm telling you guys to not hit it so hot. Either reduce the level going in, or put a softer knee on the waveshaper or compressor you're using.

Please don't post misinformation if you don't know what you're talking about.

[Artie_Fufkin]

this is pretty fundamental.

i c wat u did ther

That's neat about the different types of clipping and foldback distortion. I remember the renoise manual explaining what each does(and a fourth kind of nasty distortion I haven't found a use for yet...) but they didn't describe like compression.

Also, as an alternative to multiband soft clipping or compression, you can try volume automation.

[mromgwtf]

1. Sine wave DOES have harmonic content

No it doesn't. Break a sine wave down into its constituent partials with a DFT and count how many sine waves there are. There's only one because that's what the wave was to begin with. C'mon man, this is pretty fundamental.

Compressors are doing something closer to soft clipping. It's all acting on the same wave so I don't get your distinction between wave or dynamic range compression. The only difference is the time component with a compressor. Have you tried setting a compressor to 0 attack and infinite ratio? Tell me that's not identical to hard clipping. Put a soft knee on it and tell me it's not soft clipping. This is where I'm telling you guys to not hit it so hot. Either reduce the level going in, or put a softer knee on the waveshaper or compressor you're using.

Please don't post misinformation if you don't know what you're talking about.

I would rather use FFT than DFT. But anyway:
Sine wave doesn't have overtones, but it does have one harmonic.
And 1 != 0 .
No harmonic content = no signal.

And a compressor with 0 attack/release wouldn't be considered a compressor.
You can't even set 0 attack/release on most of the compressors.

[Add9]

1. Sine wave DOES have harmonic content

No it doesn't. Break a sine wave down into its constituent partials with a DFT and count how many sine waves there are. There's only one because that's what the wave was to begin with. C'mon man, this is pretty fundamental.

Compressors are doing something closer to soft clipping. It's all acting on the same wave so I don't get your distinction between wave or dynamic range compression. The only difference is the time component with a compressor. Have you tried setting a compressor to 0 attack and infinite ratio? Tell me that's not identical to hard clipping. Put a soft knee on it and tell me it's not soft clipping. This is where I'm telling you guys to not hit it so hot. Either reduce the level going in, or put a softer knee on the waveshaper or compressor you're using.

Please don't post misinformation if you don't know what you're talking about.

I would rather use FFT than DFT. But anyway:
Sine wave doesn't have overtones, but it does have one harmonic.
And 1 != 0 .
No harmonic content = no signal.

And a compressor with 0 attack/release wouldn't be considered a compressor.
You can't even set 0 attack/release on most of the compressors.

lol I had a feeling someone was going to not just assume I meant extra harmonics and feel the need to correct me when I said sine waves don't have harmonics. I guess I need to be ultra-specific next time.

[mromgwtf]

1. Sine wave DOES have harmonic content

No it doesn't. Break a sine wave down into its constituent partials with a DFT and count how many sine waves there are. There's only one because that's what the wave was to begin with. C'mon man, this is pretty fundamental.

Compressors are doing something closer to soft clipping. It's all acting on the same wave so I don't get your distinction between wave or dynamic range compression. The only difference is the time component with a compressor. Have you tried setting a compressor to 0 attack and infinite ratio? Tell me that's not identical to hard clipping. Put a soft knee on it and tell me it's not soft clipping. This is where I'm telling you guys to not hit it so hot. Either reduce the level going in, or put a softer knee on the waveshaper or compressor you're using.

Please don't post misinformation if you don't know what you're talking about.

I would rather use FFT than DFT. But anyway:
Sine wave doesn't have overtones, but it does have one harmonic.
And 1 != 0 .
No harmonic content = no signal.

And a compressor with 0 attack/release wouldn't be considered a compressor.
You can't even set 0 attack/release on most of the compressors.

lol I had a feeling someone was going to not just assume I meant extra harmonics and feel the need to correct me when I said sine waves don't have harmonics. I guess I need to be ultra-specific next time.

Multi account much? lol
There is a difference between harmonic and an overtone.

[gαммα]

I've been softclipping the master of my recent tunes, adds a really nice warmth to the track.

Mr. Carmack is really good at doing this, most of his tunes have audible "distortion" yet it still sounds clean as hell
Soundcloud

what I do is just stick a soft clipper on the master then turn up the master until it pushes the softclipper a bit, not too much tho

You got any idea how carmack gets his snares to pop so hard? That track has some pretty nice snares, but the snares he uses in his other stuff blows my mind.

i haven't managed to get my snares as good as carmacks, but basically just have them really loud and mix them right and you can make them sound alright
heres a tune I made using soft clipping and loud drums
Soundcloud

proud of the sub on that as well, took me ages to get it sounding dirty but still have the weight