seeing as dubstep has been growing steadily in its' internationality and global presence for the past few years I figured I would start a topic on Grime's spread through North America (particularly)...
been spotting more than a few Grime nights in places like Toronto and Montreal - and I know there are a few UK-based emcees operating in NYC... but have also been seeing kids myspaces from smaller towns (pretty close to where I'm from in NY) that talk about a US grime scene "coming soon"...
I guess my thoughts on this are kind of pessimistic - as in.. sure its one thing to spin the new Skepta at a party, or to be a UK emcee living in NYC.. but its another to say that Grime per se can exist authentically anywhere outside of the UK.. I'm having trouble wrapping my head around conceptualizing Grime as a international phenomenon because its an incredibly localized sound whereas dubstep seems alot more internationally viable due to its sort of more global sonic palette..
cultural theory heads help me out on this one
Views on the Grime scene in North America... (or elsewhere)
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jolly wailer
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Views on the Grime scene in North America... (or elsewhere)
myxylpyx wrote:dam bro dats sick... off to the garden to eat some worms now.
Nice thread
I hear what you're saying, grime's been pretty UK specific til now. But then hip hop is about as US as you can get and that's been recontextualised (with varying degrees of success) all over the world.
As for "authenticity", that's a tricky one... Anyway, it'll be interest to see who picks up on the grime sound in other countries and what they do with it.
I hear what you're saying, grime's been pretty UK specific til now. But then hip hop is about as US as you can get and that's been recontextualised (with varying degrees of success) all over the world.
As for "authenticity", that's a tricky one... Anyway, it'll be interest to see who picks up on the grime sound in other countries and what they do with it.
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blk plague
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Re: Views on the Grime scene in North America... (or elsewhe
brov, you make a good point. i love grime and i wish it was as relevant in the states as it is in the uk but what do yanks really know about council estates, off licenses, jumping the 38 bus and paying no fare, henrys for 20 quid, a ten pack of mayfairs etc etc. its extremely localised. id be rather content with just having a place in ny where i can hear grime on a saturday night-weekend shoobzin' d'you get me?!Jolly Wailer wrote:I guess my thoughts on this are kind of pessimistic - as in.. sure its one thing to spin the new Skepta at a party, or to be a UK emcee living in NYC.. but its another to say that Grime per se can exist authentically anywhere outside of the UK.. I'm having trouble wrapping my head around conceptualizing Grime as a international phenomenon because its an incredibly localized sound whereas dubstep seems alot more internationally viable due to its sort of more global sonic palette..
I AM NOT OK.
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classagraphics
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computer rock
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what's funny is listening to the early UK hiphop (stuff like hijack) and them sounding like their all yanks. can't imagine that shit happening nowjera wrote:would be funny to hear sum yank tryin to spit bars in an english accent
Corpsey wrote:It's cos everything has to be 'filthy' and 'sickening' nowadays.
Back in the dayz we used to sit cross legged in a circle at DMZ and signal the DJ with joss sticks.
the only problem i see is that hip hop is starting to fade in america, so that would make grime a bit hard to market over here. all the critics were saying that lady sovereign would be crossover, but that didn't pan out, so these major labels are back to square one on grime. the worst part about how they approach marketing grime over here is that people like amy whinehouse and lily allen are being called " uk underground" in articles and reviews.
Last edited by seckle on Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rickyricardo
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On another forum I frequent, recently one guy asked (a rather bait) question as to whether Baltimore club made by people who don't live here was any less authentic (ala Diplo, Tittsworth, etc...). His argument was that since those producers don't live here, they would never be able to capture the essence of the city, which he saw as a critical component to club music.
However, that kind of reasoning seems a bit absurd. It's a bit like saying that someone from outside Detroit could never make authentic Detroit Techno, or that for all the non-London-based dnb producers there are out there, none of it is really "authentic". Grime, really, is no different.
It's kind of my belief that any genre of music has characteristics that transcend where it originated, and is a major factor in spreading those sounds to where they do eventually catch on. People elsewhere identify something in themselves that identify w/ the experience captured in the music, feed off of that, and reproduce it. I don't see anything in that cycle that makes it suddenly lose authenticity, just b/c someone isn't steeped in the environment of the sound's origin.
Speaking specifically to grime...despite how much it owes to it's source environment, there are elements to the sound that transcend, and that's how people from Japan, to New York, to S. Africa find part of their own experience and can identify with it. So, when they choose to expres it...what suddenly makes it less authentic?
However, that kind of reasoning seems a bit absurd. It's a bit like saying that someone from outside Detroit could never make authentic Detroit Techno, or that for all the non-London-based dnb producers there are out there, none of it is really "authentic". Grime, really, is no different.
It's kind of my belief that any genre of music has characteristics that transcend where it originated, and is a major factor in spreading those sounds to where they do eventually catch on. People elsewhere identify something in themselves that identify w/ the experience captured in the music, feed off of that, and reproduce it. I don't see anything in that cycle that makes it suddenly lose authenticity, just b/c someone isn't steeped in the environment of the sound's origin.
Speaking specifically to grime...despite how much it owes to it's source environment, there are elements to the sound that transcend, and that's how people from Japan, to New York, to S. Africa find part of their own experience and can identify with it. So, when they choose to expres it...what suddenly makes it less authentic?
Last edited by rickyricardo on Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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michael red
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I know what you mean. If people relate to the ethos and aesthetic of grime then what's to stop kids in NYC substituting the UK culture specific references with their own. Surely people jump the bus etc over there too. If grime was a reaction to a hip hop aesthetic and message that seemed irrelevant to them there's no reason why kids in other countries (including the US) couldn't feel equally alienated by it and pick up on a sound and attitude like grime as an alternative. As you say, people have been latching on to hip hop all over the world for years.RickyRicardo wrote:On another forum I frequent, recently one guy asked (a rather bait) question as to whether Baltimore club made by people who don't live here was any less authentic (ala Diplo, Tittsworth, etc...). His argument was that since those producers don't live here, they would never be able to capture the essence of the city, which he saw as a critical component to club music.
However, that kind of reasoning seems a bit absurd. It's a bit like saying that someone from outside Detroit could never make authentic Detroit Techno, or that for all the non-London-based dnb producers there are out there, none of it is really "authentic". Grime, really, is no different.
It's kind of my belief that any genre of music has characteristics that transcend where it originated, and is a major factor in spreading those sounds to where they do eventually catch on. People elsewhere identify something in themselves that identify w/ the experience captured in the music, feed off of that, and reproduce it. I don't see anything in that cycle that makes it suddenly lose authenticity, just b/c someone isn't steeped in the environment of the sound's origin.
Speaking specifically to grime...despite how much it owes to it's source environment, there are elements to the sound that transcend, and that's how people from Japan, to New York, to S. Africa find part of their own experience and can identify with it. So, when they choose to expres it...what suddenly makes it less authentic?
Tbh though I can't see it happening in reality unfortunately. Hip hop became a world dominating musical force before it got adopted by other countries. Grime's got no-where near the same international exposure. Add to that the US's generalised cultural influence. How many 15 year olds of the world want to be English in 2007?
There's a label called SLIT JOCKEY, dont' know if you've heard of it. The mon El Carnicero is on some heavy shit, and always has been. That Dev79 has tricks, tunes, and obvious knowledge that can make any connections to any sub-genre or era of beats seem like it was made to be fucked with, exactly the way he does it. And that Starkey guy? ... nuff said.
NA, grime, that's the biznez right there ^^.
I've always been against presenting, and exploring music with genre marketed definitives. Like "this is a grime set, THESE are grime artists that you need to know, THIS is considered grime but THIS isn't, proper grime can only be found in the grime section of yer record shop, etc." Its dumb. And marketing music like that ends as fast as the hype that preceeds it. Production wise, there's lots of hip-hop, or electronic music that can mix with "grime", it shouldn't be a definitive portal. I think the longevity of any sound, genre, or development in music is dependent on outside experimentation and dissection of that current sound or influence. I think that's where grime falls short. Peeps don't do enough with it to make an impact to anyone outside the UK.
In the mean time, Slit Jockey still thrives,,,baiting us with new ideas. And I guess that's been their point all along.
respects due, and all that.
NA, grime, that's the biznez right there ^^.
I've always been against presenting, and exploring music with genre marketed definitives. Like "this is a grime set, THESE are grime artists that you need to know, THIS is considered grime but THIS isn't, proper grime can only be found in the grime section of yer record shop, etc." Its dumb. And marketing music like that ends as fast as the hype that preceeds it. Production wise, there's lots of hip-hop, or electronic music that can mix with "grime", it shouldn't be a definitive portal. I think the longevity of any sound, genre, or development in music is dependent on outside experimentation and dissection of that current sound or influence. I think that's where grime falls short. Peeps don't do enough with it to make an impact to anyone outside the UK.
In the mean time, Slit Jockey still thrives,,,baiting us with new ideas. And I guess that's been their point all along.
respects due, and all that.
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