Building a low budget pc for music production.

[SunkLo]

Get 4 GB of ram and upgrade to 8 at a later point in time. Get rid of the GPU too and reinvest the money you're saving into a better CPU, at least i5 but i7 if you can.

When you have more cash, get an SSD, more RAM and a GPU (if necessary) in that order. UNLESS you don't already have an audio interface, then forget what I just said and get an external soundcard later too, before you even get the SSD/RAM/GPU. In the meantime, just use your motherboard's soundcard. No point in spending more money on a fancy consumer grade soundcard if you're just gonna get an interface later.

^Do exactly this. Get a proper desktop CPU for your desktop, not something optimized for power-saving in a mobile device. You can't upgrade your mobo or processor a month down the road but you can easily slot in more ram or a GPU. I'd try not to skimp on a PSU either because you'll end up having to replace it if you start adding shit. This is also assuming you go with an i7 instead of the i3. The Xeon is kind of the grandaddy of the i7's now, but you're better off buying as new as possible (before you hit the bleeding edge ridiculous price per performance zone).

For the record, I've got a Corsair 1000W PSU that survived being flooded with a few inches of basementy rain water. Can't speak for other CPUs, but my experience with Corsair has been pretty decent.

In terms of ram, I've got 6 gigs of Mushkin 1600 and it's really hard for me to hit a wall. I use lots of multisampled kontakt instruments and usually have about 100 tabs open in firefox at any given time, so that should give you an idea of the memory footprint of an average session. Like Genevieve has said, upgrading to more ram is definitely worth it, but it's very easy to postpone since you can get by fine with 4 gigs for a while.

You can also hold off from gaming a little longer and invest in a CPU/mobo pair that will last you longer into the future. You'd probably go for a SSD after that and then possibly a better CPU cooler for overclocking. Grab the stuff you can't upgrade first and use it as a foundation to build on.

[dial_back]

Another option......about the same price as your original build, but the price is not dependent on rebates. I think you'd be happier with the FX-6300 over the i3. 6 cores vs a dual, multiple cores and hyperthreading are your friends. Not trying to set off an intel vs amd fight, just trying to give him options folks.

Honestly if you have an older GPU/monitor you can use for a bit, do it. That's like 1/3rd of your budget. Invest that into an i5 or i7 and a nice 1155 mobo and upgrade your display setup later if you can afford to do that.

And yeah, get an audio interface asap if you don't have one.


CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor ($117.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock 970 EXTREME4 ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Kingston 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($52.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($59.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: HIS Radeon HD 7770 1GB Video Card ($89.99 @ Microcenter)
Case: Rosewill Challenger-U3 ATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Cooler Master eXtreme Power Plus 500W ATX12V Power Supply ($36.60 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer ($14.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: BenQ GW2450 24.0" Monitor ($158.24 @ TigerDirect)
Total: $670.77

[Electric_Head]

But are you saying Corsair is good though, cause that's not my experience. I mean for a psu, I wouldn't go with
Corsair.

That's my point.
It's like paying extra for nike.

That Xeon machine is a rock solid build imo.
Xeon's are powerful processors.

[Simulant]

Sigh... the forum douche strikes again. So you're a computer guy now? Worst post ever.

^Do exactly this. Get a proper desktop CPU for your desktop, not something optimized for power-saving in a mobile device.

So, get a 4Gb memory stick and limit your upgrade options? Instead of just buying an 8Gb stick? Great advice. And I assume you're talking about Haswell when you mention power savings? The part you missed out is that Haswell is also the fastest chip on the market, right? It just happens to save you money on your electricity bill too, but seeing as you're living with your parents that's not a concern for you?

I'd try not to skimp on a PSU either because you'll end up having to replace it if you start adding shit.

500w is more than enough for a budget music computer. Sure you can't add dual 780GTX's later, but that's not why he's building it.

This is also assuming you go with an i7 instead of the i3. The Xeon is kind of the grandaddy of the i7's now

The Xeon is made for servers, idiot. He's also building a BUDGET PC. Even a 4770K would likely be way over budget.

but you're better off buying as new as possible (before you hit the bleeding edge ridiculous price per performance zone).

Huh? I'd assume he would be buying brand new. And the age of the processor has nothing to do with the performance zone, they bin CPUs depending on their performance. So they're priced reflects their performance, not how new they are.

For the record, I've got a Corsair 1000W PSU that survived being flooded with a few inches of basementy rain water.

Sigh....

Can't speak for other CPUs, but my experience with Corsair has been pretty decent.

Can't speak for other CPUs? Corsair make CPUs now?

In terms of ram, I've got 6 gigs of Mushkin 1600 and it's really hard for me to hit a wall.

Sigh... you don't hit a friggin wall, Google "page file". It's not hard to understand, even for you.

and usually have about 100 tabs open in firefox at any given time

about 100 tabs

Sure you do buddy.

[Electric_Head]

Lay off the animosity.

[wub]

FUN FACT - You can pass constructive criticism on another forum member's opinions without unprovoked name calling and general condescension.

[SunkLo]

So, get a 4Gb memory stick and limit your upgrade options? Instead of just buying an 8Gb stick? Great advice.

He's not limited at all by buying ram. For instance pretty soon I'm gonna slot in another 6 gigs on top of what I already have. Don't know how that could be any less complicated.

And I assume you're talking about Haswell when you mention power savings? The part you missed out is that Haswell is also the fastest chip on the market, right? It just happens to save you money on your electricity bill too, but seeing as you're living with your parents that's not a concern for you?

I'm referring to i3 vs i7. i3's are stripped down for laptops and low power devices. i7's are for proper desktop workstations. Which is what he's gonna want for production. Why not buy a solid CPU and mobo and build a system around it?

500w is more than enough for a budget music computer. Sure you can't add dual 780GTX's later, but that's not why he's building it.

He's talking about gaming with it so he's probably going to want to scale it up.

The Xeon is made for servers, idiot. He's also building a BUDGET PC. Even a 4770K would likely be way over budget.

I know durr. He brought it up. I was just saying he should get an i7 instead of a Xeon.

Huh? I'd assume he would be buying brand new. And the age of the processor has nothing to do with the performance zone, they bin CPUs depending on their performance. So they're priced reflects their performance, not how new they are.

By 'new', I'm referring to the maturity of the tech, not the actual age of the cpu. The bleeding edge always takes a bit of time to come down in price. Like SSDs have done.

Can't speak for other CPUs? Corsair make CPUs now?

Yeah I meant to type PSUs. Biggups though, you badman. Sure showed me.

Sigh... you don't hit a friggin wall, Google "page file". It's not hard to understand, even for you.

No there's definitely a wall. HDs aren't as fast as ram. A lot of instruments playing at once can't be swapped to disk so you need to have the ram flex. Weren't you just advocating getting more ram? Now you're saying there's no wall from having an under-equipped system?

and usually have about 100 tabs open in firefox at any given time

Sure you do buddy.

139 as of right now. That's not really any big feat. Don't know why you'd doubt me on that except to be a dick.

Sad act you are.

[Simulant]

So, get a 4Gb memory stick and limit your upgrade options? Instead of just buying an 8Gb stick? Great advice.

Buy 4Gb now, then want to upgrade to 4x8Gb later, have useless 4Gb stick kicking around, it couldn't be any simpler.

I'm referring to i3 vs i7. i3's are stripped down for laptops and low power devices. i7's are for proper desktop workstations. Which is what he's gonna want for production. Why not buy a solid CPU and mobo and build a system around it?

Incorrect, they're not specifically for mobile workstations. They're entry level desktop and mobile CPUs. Like I said, you're confusing Ivy Bridge and Haswell with i3 vs i7. The differences are hyperthreading and turbo boost.

He's talking about gaming with it so he's probably going to want to scale it up.

You can run a mid range graphics card on a 500w PSU. Sure, if he wants a high end card then a bigger PSU would be recommended, but this will be fine for the system mentioned in the OP.

By 'new', I'm referring to the maturity of the tech, not the actual age of the cpu. The bleeding edge always takes a bit of time to come down in price. Like SSDs have done.

Incorrect - CPUs are not SSDs. With CPUs, you should always go for the latest generation possible. Intel don't usually offer discounts on older chips, so newer ones are always more desirable if your MB supports them.

Here we have the 3770k at £270 and the later gen 4770k at £264 reduced from £270:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showprodu ... 01&catid=6
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showprodu ... 01&catid=6

No there's definitely a wall. HDs aren't as fast as ram. A lot of instruments playing at once can't be swapped to disk so you need to have the ram flex. Weren't you just advocating getting more ram? Now you're saying there's no wall from having an under-equipped system?

Again you misunderstand what I said. Sure, when you completely run out of memory it's like hitting a wall. But when you have less RAM, you tend to use the page file more. This is why systems with more RAM tend to score a bit higher on benchmarks. Windows uses the page file whether you have free RAM or not.

139 as of right now. That's not really any big feat. Don't know why you'd doubt me on that except to be a dick.

Because it's silly. Nobody can use more than a handful of tabs and do anything useful. If you're leaving a page open to come back to it, that's what bookmarks are for. To have 100+ tabs open cluttering up the RAM is just silly.

Sad act you are.

Likewise. But I hope you've learnt something. Stick to telling people not to buy monitors.

[SunkLo]

Never said that. You're dim as fuck mate, jog on.

You're saying he has to put 8 gigs in his budget workstation in case he ever needs to upgrade to 32 gigs? Jesus man listen to yourself.

Sure, when you completely run out of memory it's like hitting a wall.

Ok glad we could clear that up. What I was saying is that it's rare for that to happen to me with 6 gigs. OP could easily rough it out on 4 gigs while he saves for more ram.

I can and do use 100 tabs effectively. It's easier on the network to keep pages loaded. I don't have to waste time bookmarking something I'm only going to read once and then having to go find it and delete it later. I just leave the tab open, read it when I have some free time, ctrl-w. There's no way I'd regularly go through my bookmarks to find recent additions. Much easier to keep it open so I remember.

[Simulant]

Never said that. You're dim as fuck mate, jog on.

Says the guy who's just given out advice on things he knows nothing about... very smart!

You're saying he has to put 8 gigs in his budget workstation in case he ever needs to upgrade to 32 gigs? Jesus man listen to yourself.

Don't call me Jesus, Simulant is fine thanks. And no, you missed the point. I'm saying to get 8Gb as the price difference is minimal, and he won't need to upgrade it for a while. Plus he likes to do a bit of gaming, RAM helps with that.

Yes, people are running 32Gb systems these days even in laptops. It's totally overkill for most people today, but saying that I remember a time when 16Mb was a lot. Google "Moore's Law" for more information.

Ok glad we could clear that up. What I was saying is that it's rare for that to happen to me with 6 gigs. OP could easily rough it out on 4 gigs while he saves for more ram.

"Could", sure. But why rough it when for an extra $20 you can have an ultra smooth system?

[SunkLo]

Because he's trying to cut corners financially, and ram is easy to upgrade later?

Honestly if it was me, I'd just save for another paycheque and buy the computer I actually want. But if you're gonna cut corners, don't do it on the core of your system. Go modest on ram and storage and anything else you can update later.

You keep telling me to look up shit I already know about. I don't know whether you think you're the only human to know about computers or take CS or what? You're citing Moore's law but somehow don't see the value in going for an i7 instead of an i3. Don't you think it's more future proof to get a quadcore hyperthreaded workstation cpu for a digital audio workstation, instead of the modern equivalent of a Celeron D? That's a step back. What's the point of Moore's law if you're not taking advantage of that efficiency of technology compounding on itself? Extra cache, hyperthreading, turbo, double the cores... All things that will make a difference. Moreso than superfluous ram or a nice GPU. i3's are meant for email checking and youtube on your laptop. i7's are workhorse processors that are ideal for music production and gaming. I don't know why you'd torture yourself by building a workstation around a feeble unsuitable processor.

Go for quality on the core of the system, and add in the parts that are easily upgraded as you go. Ram, GPU, SSD... all very easy to add to a system. It's not quite as easy to add more cache to your CPU for instance.

[Simulant]

lots of bullshit

No, an i3 is not the equivalent of a Celeron - the Pentium is the new Celeron and is the budget option for Intel. Then i3, i5 and i7, with the extreme edition i7 at the top. The latest i3 has 2 cores and 4 threads with hyperthreading, but no turbo boost. Sure, it'd be nice to get a better spec chip, but you're forgetting that this is a low budget system. An i7 is a lot more expensive than an i3.

[efence]

Tiger direct barebones kits....hard drive(maybe 2),PSU, and an extra 4GB of ram and your golden
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... &CatId=332

[efence]

lots of bullshit

No, an i3 is not the equivalent of a Celeron - the Pentium is the new Celeron and is the budget option for Intel. Then i3, i5 and i7, with the extreme edition i7 at the top. The latest i3 has 2 cores and 4 threads with hyperthreading, but no turbo boost. Sure, it'd be nice to get a better spec chip, but you're forgetting that this is a low budget system. An i7 is a lot more expensive than an i3.

low budget.....you need to go AMD more bang for your buck!

[Tom_Autobot]

Some people said I should get worse GPU and invest more in CPU, well I forgot to add that I want to play TF2 on it and maybe other games so I need a GPU Thanks for your suggestions.

I found a guy offering a new computer with pretty good parameters for really cheap, these are the parameters:

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1220V2 4x3,1Ghz
GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 650 Ti
Ram: 8gb ddr3 1333mhz
and other stuff for 660$

What do you think about the CPU?

Yes go for this, its about as powerful as an i5 desktop chip and the graphics card is pretty decent.

[forbidden]

Some people said I should get worse GPU and invest more in CPU, well I forgot to add that I want to play TF2 on it and maybe other games so I need a GPU Thanks for your suggestions.

I found a guy offering a new computer with pretty good parameters for really cheap, these are the parameters:

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1220V2 4x3,1Ghz
GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 650 Ti
Ram: 8gb ddr3 1333mhz
and other stuff for 660$

What do you think about the CPU?

Yes go for this, its about as powerful as an i5 desktop chip and the graphics card is pretty decent.

agreed it's not TERRIBLE but he shouldn't pay 650. OP, what is the "other stuff" you mentioned in your first post? it might be worth it if the rest of the parts around it are reasonably dank, but if they are just run of the mill shit you shouldn't pay more than 5, MAYBE 550 tops for that.

my 2 cents on a build. i'm leaning more towards future proof and raw performance here since music production isn't something you learn in one year.

i would recommend going AMD like others have ITT, however i just learned in another thread that intel's hyperthreading feature really opens up the amount of cpu/ram your DAW can utilize so i would go that route if i were to start my build fresh right now.

mobo, processor and power/cooling should be your primary focus..as others have mentioned ram and additions like a graphics card can come later if you're going to game with the machine. a good mobo goes a looooong way, i'd recommend going asus and i'd recommend spending over $125 on it. advantages like extra slots for more cards down the line as well as an upgraded BIOS will come in handy big time.

for processor i'd go with the intel 3000 series, and shoot for an upper mid-range model. i'm an amd guy so i'm not too familiar, but work it out with your budget. the 3000 series is already getting cheaper and the 4000 series doesn't have too much to offer you money/performance wise over the 3000. you'd be better off getting the next generation of processor down the road (5000 series) that will fit snugly into your nice mobo you should buy (because i said so, just do it trust me.)

power supply go for a 650watt model, or a 750 watt if you want. 500 will do, but if you plan on adding a graphics card and/or have a bunch of peripherals that draw power 650-1000 will do. you'll see a lot of "modular" power supplies out there, this is really just a luxury that allows you to unplug cables you don't need and have an easier time routing cable inside your case if you're a nerd like me and want it looking pretty.

for cooling i'd highly recommend going liquid. liquid is great because it makes pretty much zero noise, which is ideal for music production. i use the corsair h50 and it works perfect. don't worry about the nightmarish situation of a hose spraying water all over your precious components, that shit doesn't happen. just follow the instructions. not necessary but highly recommended because your fans won't have to run nearly as often or as fast if your cpu is being cooled by liquid.

for ram you'll want 8 gigs with the possibility to upgrade more, and considering the fact you have to use the same kind of ram i'd just go for one stick of 8gb then another stick down the road if you start hitting the limit. ram speed is not important, 1333 will do, 1600 if you want it to go a little faster. i have mine overclocked and i notice zero difference so no need to blow money here.

hard drives...as previously recommended you're going to want a large hard drive for storage and an SSD for your OS. i have 2 1tb drives and a 250gb SSD, a setup that works out very well for me. 2tb is (for me, at least) more than enough space to store all the samples/movies/music etc. how much you spend here is up to you. i have a samsung SSD that i got for cheap off newegg, samsung is kind of the cheaper end of the spectrum here, intel being the opposite. i wanted some extra leg room with my ssd but you can safely get a 120gb SSD for cheap. WELL WORTH IT. you will notice a major increase in the snappiness of your computer's overall performance. drags and drops, launching executables and transfers of any kind are super fast.

for a graphics card don't settle for anything less than a 660Ti, but to be honest i would highly recommend holding off on that purchase so you can spend the money you have checking off the shopping list i have just made for you above. if you do it this way you will have a bulletproof build that will be the perfect home for your graphics card, not something that is just kinda meh because you blew your financial load on mediocre parts. trust me on this. i spent 1500 on this machine i'm working on right now, over the span of three months. i could have slapped something together month 1 but i waited and it was so incredibly worth it.

[Tom_Autobot]

lots of bullshit

No, an i3 is not the equivalent of a Celeron - the Pentium is the new Celeron and is the budget option for Intel. Then i3, i5 and i7, with the extreme edition i7 at the top. The latest i3 has 2 cores and 4 threads with hyperthreading, but no turbo boost. Sure, it'd be nice to get a better spec chip, but you're forgetting that this is a low budget system. An i7 is a lot more expensive than an i3.

low budget.....you need to go AMD more bang for your buck!

Not really for audio.... The AMD FX8350 will just outperform an i3@3.3ghz, but its 50% more expensive.
An i3 is basically half an i7 with no turbo, so if we take the overclocked i7 audio benchmark result (as no turbo when overclocked) , divide by 4300(mhz), divide by two and then multiply by 3300 for the i3, it comes in at between 50 and 61 compressor instances on the chart below, compared to 10 and 78 for the amd . i would stake my shirt that this is accurate to within 10% (to be generous)

http://www.scanproaudio.info/?p=2290

And are great for budget gaming machines (and the built in graphics are really impressive for a "freebie"), but the architecture is poor for low latency audio..... look at what happens at the amd 32 buffer size result in that link i just posted.

[mromgwtf]

Don't laugh at me for the choice, but because of the situation, I just bought a toshiba laptop
17.3'', Intel Core i3-3120M, 8gb of ram. I'll definitely buy a i7-core pc if I'll start making music FOR REAL.

[AxeD]

Fuck that shit you don't need all those fancy parts for production...
I mean liquid cooling really? Even the most advanced CR's run regular 8 core mac towers and most of the noise
will still be coming from the racks or the A/C

Have fun with your new laptop. I switched to a small screen one quite fast, but if you want to play some games or do some design that big screen is great.

[mromgwtf]

Fuck that shit you don't need all those fancy parts for production...
I mean liquid cooling really? Even the most advanced CR's run regular 8 core mac towers and most of the noise
will still be coming from the racks or the A/C

Have fun with your new laptop. I switched to a small screen one quite fast, but if you want to play some games or do some design that big screen is great.

Yeah, I was using my 22'' samsung all the time, it's not that super big but it was great for playing games, internet browsing and producing.
As sunklo said, Moore's law and that is it. Some time will pass, and i7's price will be the same as i3's now. The thing is that for example things like games, as time passes need more processing power, but music production doesn't. It's a constant.
Thanks everyone