What ever happened to the innovation?

[bennyfroobs]

People saying 130 is just grime slowed down are clueless

A lot of the best 130 shit is barely grime at all

I didn't say all the 130 stuff is just slowed down grime but a lot of it sounds like that to me, I just think that if those tunes were at 140 rather than 130 people wouldn't be going so wild for it

disagree, like i said nefore, a lot of those guys produce beats at a range of bpms. its not about the bpm its about the vibes they capture in their tunes. realstically i couldnt care less what bpm it is and i doubt a lot of other people do as well. if the tunes good, its good. the whole point of the tempo change wasnt to start a revolution it was just so those (relatively) new producers could have their own 'space'

[particle-jim]

For example there was a new LAS bit called Malfunction that was way out there, not heard anything like that before

no innovation in dubstep?

[pete_bubonic]

Using the term 130 as a genre name makes me cringe so so hard. Same with 'Bass Music'. Most painful thing of it is near 95% of it usually is Dubstep, Techno or Grime. I guess the idea was to highlight how the music is supposedly undefinable or at least move away from the stigma that the term Dubstep has now.

Like that LAS beat above is just a Dubstep beat. A good one, SO I GUESS WE'LL CALL IT 130 SO ALL THE HIPSTERS CAN STAY AHEAD OF THE CURVE.

[Johnlenham]

LAS just makes dubstep though? Unless Ive missed something.
Bass music is pretty bad but its much better than having to explain to people that dont know you well that you dont have a collection of Skrillex records.
130s a pretty rubbish name as well but if someone said "check out this 130 tune" its reached a point where youd have a pretty good grasp on what it might sound like.

[jrkhnds]

LAS just makes dubstep though? Unless Ive missed something.
Bass music is pretty bad but its much better than having to explain to people that dont know you well that you dont have a collection of Skrillex records.
130s a pretty rubbish name as well but if someone said "check out this 130 tune" its reached a point where youd have a pretty good grasp on what it might sound like.

most likely somewhere between Murlo's and MssingNo's takes on grime and rnb @140bpm, Beneath's fusion of funky and techno at roughly 130bpm, Visionist hitting the one-twenty...

yeah, "130" is definitely more than a verbal formula.

[particle-jim]

Using the term 130 as a genre name makes me cringe so so hard. Same with 'Bass Music'. Most painful thing of it is near 95% of it usually is Dubstep, Techno or Grime. I guess the idea was to highlight how the music is supposedly undefinable or at least move away from the stigma that the term Dubstep has now.

Like that LAS beat above is just a Dubstep beat. A good one, SO I GUESS WE'LL CALL IT 130 SO ALL THE HIPSTERS CAN STAY AHEAD OF THE CURVE.

I wasn't posting the LAS tune as an example of "130", It's very definitely dubstep, I was just posting it as a counter to people saying there's no more innovation left within dubstep

[pete_bubonic]

Using the term 130 as a genre name makes me cringe so so hard. Same with 'Bass Music'. Most painful thing of it is near 95% of it usually is Dubstep, Techno or Grime. I guess the idea was to highlight how the music is supposedly undefinable or at least move away from the stigma that the term Dubstep has now.

Like that LAS beat above is just a Dubstep beat. A good one, SO I GUESS WE'LL CALL IT 130 SO ALL THE HIPSTERS CAN STAY AHEAD OF THE CURVE.

I wasn't posting the LAS tune as an example of "130", It's very definitely dubstep, I was just posting it as a counter to people saying there's no more innovation left within dubstep

Bad use of an example on my behalf. The point still stands.

[Debaser1]

dj - producer

THIS

[Debaser1]

For me im really intrigued to see what Swamp 81 will be releasing this year. In the grand scheme of UK bass music they've remained *relatively* untouched by genre boxes. I haven't digged EVERYTHING that they've put out in the last year or 2 but I really respect that they're still all about bass and having a good time - regardless of genre. The likes of the New Zed Bias stuff and Paleman going into 2014 could be crucial in shaping what happens this year I reckon. Dem shepherds awaitin the sheep...

I'm just growing ever tired of music made to fit a deliberate marketplace, written cynically. I'm a 140 lover and ive been passionate about it for years now more so than anything else, but I'm forever becoming appreciative of uncynically written music made to just make people happy, regardless if its 80bpm or 180. Even hearing the new Distance stuff its essentially the exact same beats he was making 5,6,7+ years ago, but it's uncynically written and all about the bass, and for that I love and respect it.

I think the way bass music is going with so many genres coming and going at the moment, and producers jumping around constantly whoring themselves out to the newest fad, perhaps the most innovative thing to do is to stay true to your ideals and principles and refuse to budge on what youre passionate making. The likes of Mala and J:Kenzo are still pushing the good vibes, it's just that we think less of them because what they're making isn't 'the done thing' at the moment. If you continue to make tunes that people can tell love and passion has gone into, then your time will come round again.

[blackdown]

Guys, especially Pete, "130" isn't a genre name - it's a placeholder to allow ideas to ferment & grow. ferment & grow free from existing stagnant paradigms.

Innovation is a haughty claim, it won't happen over night or in a thunderbolt. Iteration is far more achievable, as is trial & error: and that's where we find ourselves now.

[nclpad]

perhaps the most innovative thing to do is to stay true to your ideals and principles and refuse to budge on what youre passionate making.

Does this mean that you have to stick unwaveringly to a certain sound (or tempo) though? Is it possible to keep your ideals and principles and shift them into something else?

I'd say it's exactly this mentality that has given rise to the whole '130' thing.

[titchbit]

130 is like a black hole - every thread on here eventually approaches a discussion on it.

[Debaser1]

perhaps the most innovative thing to do is to stay true to your ideals and principles and refuse to budge on what youre passionate making.

Does this mean that you have to stick unwaveringly to a certain sound (or tempo) though? Is it possible to keep your ideals and principles and shift them into something else?

I'd say it's exactly this mentality that has given rise to the whole '130' thing.

I wouldny say that this principle is to "blame" for the 130 culture (which i have no problem with), for me the 130 culture is a reaction to the saturation of dubstep at 140. Theres nothing wrong with sticking to a certain sound if you love making it.

[nclpad]

perhaps the most innovative thing to do is to stay true to your ideals and principles and refuse to budge on what youre passionate making.

Does this mean that you have to stick unwaveringly to a certain sound (or tempo) though? Is it possible to keep your ideals and principles and shift them into something else?

I'd say it's exactly this mentality that has given rise to the whole '130' thing.

I wouldny say that this principle is to "blame" for the 130 culture (which i have no problem with), for me the 130 culture is a reaction to the saturation of dubstep at 140.

I think we're basically saying the same thing - staying true to dubstep's principles (spacious, bassy, percussive etc.) but translating them into something else because you're not happy with dubstep in itself.

Theres nothing wrong with sticking to a certain sound if you love making it.

[Be-1ne]

loads of people now use tempo as a genre reference instead of a using a name; ala dubstep, d&b.

I don't think it is so much to do with defining a genre, more to do with separating oneself from a myriad of shit created at the same tempo. 'chillstep' anyone? glitch hop?

[Debaser1]

There's so much shit about genre nowadays that I'd argue that it's actually becoming a barrier in blocking creativity. It seems now that the thought process of genre PRECEDES tunes rather than coming after them. As a producer, there's so much shit and analysis before you've even made a tune because of 100's of silly genre titles, and people will prejudge a track or producer before hearing the actual music.

Look at dubstep, that's essentially what brought us here right? When there was this new sound coming through in 03/04 people simply said "it doesn't have a name". Some were saying 'sub-lo' and things like that. But my point is that genres and categories didn't precede the music. It was simply "we're making this shit, we don't know what it is, but its cool and we love it". It seems the case nowadays that more and more so producers look at what's there and sit down and think "write i'll write a tune in that style" or "i'll make a tune to appeal to those people", and i'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but ultimately it's detrimental to the scene.

Like I said that's why I really like what Swamp 81 are doing, because they don't really seem to be tied down to genre, they just make bass heavy music that makes people happy.

[titchbit]

Look at dubstep, that's essentially what brought us here right? When there was this new sound coming through in 03/04 people simply said "it doesn't have a name". Some were saying 'sub-lo' and things like that.

i heard it was between dubstep and "reggage" at the end.

[Be-1ne]

It's not genre names that stunt creativity, it's not very creative people making tunes in a genre that lack creativity.

Only so many youtube tutorials out there.

[Debaser1]

But i think that's stemmed in classification. People say "i wanna make dubstep" search "dubstep tutorial" into youtube and there you go. The tutorial obviously gives a very narrow view of what's on offer from the entire genre, and most tutorials that represent a genre will represent the more commercial (and therefore less innovative) side of the genre.

[pete_bubonic]

Guys, especially Pete, "130" isn't a genre name - it's a placeholder to allow ideas to ferment & grow. ferment & grow free from existing stagnant paradigms.

Innovation is a haughty claim, it won't happen over night or in a thunderbolt. Iteration is far more achievable, as is trial & error: and that's where we find ourselves now.

I dunno man, it just don't feel that way to me. Wen is making Grime, """"""post grime""""" perhaps but Grime all the same. Kowton is doing the same and sometimes Techno. I don't see what's holding them back experimenting or genuinely pushing the sounds forward because it already has a name. It almost feels like it's trying to force something it's not.
However, you're far better educated on this than I am and I'm probably missing something key.