bass queries

[cloud90]

Hi guys,

Before i start, let me just state the fact that i am a complete newbie and still finding my way around. When i first started looking to make house/garage and hip hop , i was told that a song needs only one bass and which is preferably a sub bass. I have always used just one bass in my tracks and that has always been a sine wave sub bass. Recently, i have noticed that it lacks that oomp. My sub basses just usually sound dry and not exciting. Any tips for that, guys?

And also, do i need to add other basses along with the sub bass when making one of the three genre's? I understand, that it also a matter of personal preference.

Thanks

[Electric_Head]

http://dubstepforum.com/forum/viewtopic ... 8&t=159658

[nowaysj]

Please be careful taking advice at your stage. Just find songs that you like, that sound like the music you want to make, and try to make them from scratch. You will learn so much faster, and will get yourself into a position where you can make art.

[bassbum]

Once you try and make music the way you listen to it will change. After that point I just collected different ideas from tracks I liked and then tried to put them together into one track. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't.

Experiment it's load of fun at your point. One day just pull out every effect your DAW has, push every button and see what they do.

[Electric_Head]

I should maybe have clarified my post as well.
Basically showing you how many different ways there are to make bass.
It's not all system sines.

[cloud90]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the replies. Well, usually when i try to make a track, i usually try to imitate stuff i hear off other tracks. Recently, i have been listening to a lot of deep house and garage and well, to me it seems that they probably only use one bassline (forgive me for my lack of knowledge but i always assume they are using a sub bass for the bass line - although most of the tracks probbaly don't contain a sub bass but i am still new to it all) . So i always try to input one bassline in my tracks (usually a sub bass) but after reading around (correct me, if i am wrong) but the sub bass isn't all that, apparently? Like there's supposed to be a main bass lead and the sub bass kinda back's it up, to give the main bass lead more oomph (make it sound more fuller)?

Correct me if i am wrong, guys

[nowaysj]

There is no wrong in this. There is only what you like, and your ability to fit it inside of the small box of recorded audio.

[cloud90]

After reading the link above, i don't think i wanna just rely on using sub basses all the time. There's all sorts of basses out there. My only problem i that my sub basses always sound really blurred and not clear and smooth when i play with them for a bit. Actually that has always been my problem. Even when i use like bass preset or something, after playing around with it for a bit , i can never get it to sound smooth and clear/clean. I have always wanted to create smooth, clear baselines.

Also, i know music has no rules and all but in terms of decent production, how many basslines is decent enough?

[nowaysj]

You know music doesn't have any rules, but what are the rules, eh?

If you want to know the rules, discover the rules in the songs you like. Really listen to them. Use an analyzer to find where each element is in the mix. And all the rest. You have the songs, the rules are right there, if you are interested enough to find them. They're right there.

[Aufnahmewindwuschel]

thats a bassline i can support

[cloud90]

You know music doesn't have any rules, but what are the rules, eh?

If you want to know the rules, discover the rules in the songs you like. Really listen to them. Use an analyzer to find where each element is in the mix. And all the rest. You have the songs, the rules are right there, if you are interested enough to find them. They're right there.

Yeah, i guess your right. An anlyzer? i think there's one in ableton but i don't know how to use it, to work the elements in a song..Also, any tips as to how i can make my baselines more clearer and less muddy like..

[nowaysj]

Learn how to use your analyzer. Where you're at... everytime you hit something that you don't understand. STOP. and do some research. A 7 minute video on YT will answer all your questions and 4 more that you didn't know you had yet. Learn it, and get back to work. If you do that for six months, you'll kind of know what is going on, and will be way ahead of people starting at the same time as you, but who think they're artists and geniuses and don't need to learn anything. Just learn it upfront.

Take a track that you like the bass. Find a spot where mostly the bass is playing, and look in the analyzer. The bass will be on the left, if you actually mean bass. See where it is. Load up a vst synth, and make a sine wave, look at it on the analyzer, play it in the same range as the bass in the song. Just to get your bearings.

To make your bass clearer, remove unnecessary bass from ALL of your other sounds. To determine what is necessary, put an eq with a low cut / high pass filter set around -18db/oct on the sound and slowly sweep it up the freqs until your sound becomes too thin sounding - in the context of the full mix. Do it with every sound. If you listen to the sound in isolation, it will sound weird and like you're killing the sound. But your mix, and your bass will start to clear up.

Another thing to think about is what sounds are playing at the same time. Don't stack up too many instruments that are supposed to have bass in them at the same time. Some people would say don't stack up ANY instruments that are supposed to have bass in them at the same time. Like don't line up bass notes with your kick. But whatever.

If you want anything to be big and powerful, it should be in the center, and it should be the only or one of the only sounds happening at that moment. These are the limitations of recorded audio. Sounds in space heard by our ears aren't really like recorded audio, the trick is to make things sound like they do naturally.

[cloud90]

Learn how to use your analyzer. Where you're at... everytime you hit something that you don't understand. STOP. and do some research. A 7 minute video on YT will answer all your questions and 4 more that you didn't know you had yet. Learn it, and get back to work. If you do that for six months, you'll kind of know what is going on, and will be way ahead of people starting at the same time as you, but who think they're artists and geniuses and don't need to learn anything. Just learn it upfront.

Take a track that you like the bass. Find a spot where mostly the bass is playing, and look in the analyzer. The bass will be on the left, if you actually mean bass. See where it is. Load up a vst synth, and make a sine wave, look at it on the analyzer, play it in the same range as the bass in the song. Just to get your bearings.

To make your bass clearer, remove unnecessary bass from ALL of your other sounds. To determine what is necessary, put an eq with a low cut / high pass filter set around -18db/oct on the sound and slowly sweep it up the freqs until your sound becomes too thin sounding - in the context of the full mix. Do it with every sound. If you listen to the sound in isolation, it will sound weird and like you're killing the sound. But your mix, and your bass will start to clear up.

Another thing to think about is what sounds are playing at the same time. Don't stack up too many instruments that are supposed to have bass in them at the same time. Some people would say don't stack up ANY instruments that are supposed to have bass in them at the same time. Like don't line up bass notes with your kick. But whatever.

If you want anything to be big and powerful, it should be in the center, and it should be the only or one of the only sounds happening at that moment. These are the limitations of recorded audio. Sounds in space heard by our ears aren't really like recorded audio, the trick is to make things sound like they do naturally.

WOW. i really can't express how helpful you are. You seem to have the nail right on the head. Obviously, i still have to go back and experiment. Thanks for that!! I gotta read up on how to mix and master!

[nowaysj]

go back and experiment

It never ends. If you don't like learning and experimenting, you don't like engineering.

[cloud90]

my only problem now is how to make my bass more louder without messing up the quality. As soon as i put on a bass preset, the sound is always really really low. Not bass low at all. I have tried adding a saturator and tried raising and lowering the pitch but i have had no luck. This is something that has always been my problem. I even get this before i input the other instruments..Any tips, guys?

[Musick]

my only problem now is how to make my bass more louder without messing up the quality. As soon as i put on a bass preset, the sound is always really really low. Not bass low at all. I have tried adding a saturator and tried raising and lowering the pitch but i have had no luck. This is something that has always been my problem. I even get this before i input the other instruments..Any tips, guys?

From a fellow noobie-

Try compressing it and using the makeup gain on it... Carefully!

Saturation doesn't exactly 'make things louder', it bulks things up a bit, which can make things louder

[cloud90]

my only problem now is how to make my bass more louder without messing up the quality. As soon as i put on a bass preset, the sound is always really really low. Not bass low at all. I have tried adding a saturator and tried raising and lowering the pitch but i have had no luck. This is something that has always been my problem. I even get this before i input the other instruments..Any tips, guys?

From a fellow noobie-

Try compressing it and using the makeup gain on it... Carefully!

Saturation doesn't exactly 'make things louder', it bulks things up a bit, which can make things louder

Ahhh,,that sounds like a good idea. Haha, i always was under the impression that saturation solved most problems with loudness but i have noticed that at times, it doesn't really help

Thanks for that!

[Musick]

No problem! You can also use a limiter, but that's "frowned upon" in most situations

[nowaysj]

Fuck that, use a limiter. Just know that there can be problems with that. Rather than learning to do/not do something, know the issues involved, what it can do, what it can't do, what the potential problems are.

You can totally use a limiter to increase volume, trim peaks, decrease dynamic range. But problems: limiters can introduce latency to your channel. Limiters often look ahead, or have a fixed latency, meaning he signal is delayed by 20 ms or whatever. If your daw doesn't compensate for the latency, your bass will be behind, or may phase if it parallels, or is split. Also, when signals are limited, they are distorted, depending on how much, potentially audibly distorted. Further limiting later on can make inaudibly distorted peaks become audible. Once that distortion is baled into the sound, it's in there. Othe rpeople can help, battery dying, no keypad!

[cloud90]

Thanks everyone for your replies! Really much appreciated! I had some luck with the compressor and limiter