Different vloume levels and headroom when mixing

[Dizzo]

Im trying to learn about mixing and headroom just by kinda teaching myself. Ive always heard that you want the overall volume of a track below 0db right? If that is the case what should i have my different channels and busses (i bus nearly everything) hitting at? I heard somewhere on this forum to have your drums hitting at -6db but i dont think is quite right unless im doing it wrong because all it takes is for my drum bus and one other bus playing at the same time to make the master level hit slightly above 0db. And then from there (even though every individual channel is hitting below 0db) every channel i play just adds more and more to the master output.

I guess another way to word this is, how can i tell when all the volume levels are right in the mix, and is there any other way to prevent a channel from hitting at to high of a level other than just lowering the volume or limiting it?

I feel like a good song all comes down to the mix and thats something that im kinda struggling with at the moment. Also could anybody point towards a youtube video or a thread here on the forum or something that they think might help?

[rockonin]

Im trying to learn about mixing and headroom just by kinda teaching myself. Ive always heard that you want the overall volume of a track below 0db right? If that is the case what should i have my different channels and busses (i bus nearly everything) hitting at? I heard somewhere on this forum to have your drums hitting at -6db but i dont think is quite right unless im doing it wrong because all it takes is for my drum bus and one other bus playing at the same time to make the master level hit slightly above 0db. And then from there (even though every individual channel is hitting below 0db) every channel i play just adds more and more to the master output.

I guess another way to word this is, how can i tell when all the volume levels are right in the mix, and is there any other way to prevent a channel from hitting at to high of a level other than just lowering the volume or limiting it?

I feel like a good song all comes down to the mix and thats something that im kinda struggling with at the moment. Also could anybody point towards a youtube video or a thread here on the forum or something that they think might help?

When you do a mixdown export your mix listen to it on a variety of different sources like cd, car stereo to see how levels are in the mix etc Also maybe think about using volume automation for channels and busses.
In general I wouldn't bother worrying to how other people do it as they will have different production methods to you.
Look into getting a RMS reader vst like Sonalksis FreeG http://www.sonalksis.com/freeg.htm

[fragments]

There are no set numbers for what any instrument or bus should hit at--its what ever sounds best for your track. The only "rule" I would say is that yes, you want the master hitting under -0db. Probably at least -3db of headroom is desirable so you can polish the track later with some master bus processing.

In dance music usually the kick and bass are the focal point of the tune. Keep your kick between -10 and -12dbs and mix everything else around that. Again these numbers are not hard and fast rules...just a place to start : )

The only way to keep a channel from clipping is to turn it down or use compression/limiting. Don't worry about overall volume during the mixdown. Get the cleanest and punchiest mix possible then you will be able to limit the shit out your track and make it pretty fucking loud from your bedroom studio.

Of course there is a lot more to it than this and a lot of experience required to make all this work, but the basic science is pretty simple. Watch the volume knobs and meters at every stage. Make sure the signal isn't clipping inside any of your VSTs.

[Dizzo]

Keep your kick between -10 and -12dbs and mix everything else around that. Again these numbers are not hard and fast rules...just a place to start : )

Thanks dude! I think thats exactly where ill start

[fragments]

Keep your kick between -10 and -12dbs and mix everything else around that. Again these numbers are not hard and fast rules...just a place to start : )

Thanks dude! I think thats exactly where ill start

There is some good advice from Macc in the "Moneyshot" thread/sticky in the production forum. A lot of bullshit to trawl through in there...but also good advice. That is the first resource I read about gain staging and it set me on a good path.

Again the basic science of gain staging is pretty easy. Its more about experience and training your ear.

[Dizzo]

Keep your kick between -10 and -12dbs and mix everything else around that. Again these numbers are not hard and fast rules...just a place to start : )

Thanks dude! I think thats exactly where ill start

There is some good advice from Macc in the "Moneyshot" thread/sticky in the production forum. A lot of bullshit to trawl through in there...but also good advice. That is the first resource I read about gain staging and it set me on a good path.

Again the basic science of gain staging is pretty easy. Its more about experience and training your ear.

where at in the moneyshot thread is Macc? i was actually searching there before i even posted here but i didnt see anything by the name of macc?

[fragments]

http://www.dubstepforum.com/forum/viewt ... =8&t=74832

Didn't realize how different the sticky was!

[Dizzo]

http://www.dubstepforum.com/forum/viewt ... =8&t=74832

Didn't realize how different the sticky was!

Ill weed through that, thanks dude

[fragments]

http://www.dubstepforum.com/forum/viewt ... =8&t=74832

Didn't realize how different the sticky was!

Ill weed through that, thanks dude

No worries!

[blinx]

When i first started to produce i would slam WAY too many odd pads/synths/extra layers that i originally thought would make for a "better" (read entertaining) end product, you know more is better right? lol. The issue is my mixes just sounded horrible, sure i wasnt in a treated studio with Adams or w/e but the thing that helped me alot was 1. experience of failing to get a good mix a few hudnred times 2. Learning less is more, and less is way easier to mixdown and generally my tracks that had more refined but fewer elements played out and sounded way better on a PA compared to my first few "songs" i played live lol.

So if you are having troubles with mixes/headroom and you notice alot of Extras are involved, try getting down to the basics elements that really help to "drive' the track and lose the extra junk, maybe just as a starting point or a mixing exercise. Less can be more sometimes. There is only so much headroom in any given mix, having too many elements just makes you have to fight even more to get where you want to go. Less is more.

I second though starting your drums around -10db and leting things settle in around that point. Be ready to break these rules quickly once you do gain your footings. Then youll be mixing like a boss not giving a fuck what level anything is, aslong as it sounds right .

[fragments]

When i first started to produce i would slam WAY too many odd pads/synths/extra layers that i originally thought would make for a "better" (read entertaining) end product, you know more is better right? lol. The issue is my mixes just sounded horrible, sure i wasnt in a treated studio with Adams or w/e but the thing that helped me alot was 1. experience of failing to get a good mix a few hudnred times 2. Learning less is more, and less is way easier to mixdown and generally my tracks that had more refined but fewer elements played out and sounded way better on a PA compared to my first few "songs" i played live lol.

So if you are having troubles with mixes/headroom and you notice alot of Extras are involved, try getting down to the basics elements that really help to "drive' the track and lose the extra junk, maybe just as a starting point or a mixing exercise. Less can be more sometimes. There is only so much headroom in any given mix, having too many elements just makes you have to fight even more to get where you want to go. Less is more.

I second though starting your drums around -10db and leting things settle in around that point. Be ready to break these rules quickly once you do gain your footings. Then youll be mixing like a boss not giving a fuck what level anything is, aslong as it sounds right .

Key advice here. Arrangement can help your mix down! The more I really really listen to well done tracks therearent as many elements going on as you think...change shit up...modulation is a good way to keep things interesting...the three piece rock band combo sounded great over the decades for a reason. Keep it simple stupid!!

[Dizzo]

When i first started to produce i would slam WAY too many odd pads/synths/extra layers that i originally thought would make for a "better" (read entertaining) end product, you know more is better right? lol. The issue is my mixes just sounded horrible, sure i wasnt in a treated studio with Adams or w/e but the thing that helped me alot was 1. experience of failing to get a good mix a few hudnred times 2. Learning less is more, and less is way easier to mixdown and generally my tracks that had more refined but fewer elements played out and sounded way better on a PA compared to my first few "songs" i played live lol.

So if you are having troubles with mixes/headroom and you notice alot of Extras are involved, try getting down to the basics elements that really help to "drive' the track and lose the extra junk, maybe just as a starting point or a mixing exercise. Less can be more sometimes. There is only so much headroom in any given mix, having too many elements just makes you have to fight even more to get where you want to go. Less is more.

I second though starting your drums around -10db and leting things settle in around that point. Be ready to break these rules quickly once you do gain your footings. Then youll be mixing like a boss not giving a fuck what level anything is, aslong as it sounds right .

Key advice here. Arrangement can help your mix down! The more I really really listen to well done tracks therearent as many elements going on as you think...change shit up...modulation is a good way to keep things interesting...the three piece rock band combo sounded great over the decades for a reason. Keep it simple stupid!!

Aww yeah for sure. I didnt really click though to "break the rules" quickly once i got kinda a template for my mix, but now that you mention it that would totally keep it from sounding flat and stagnant.

On the other hand though, if someone can pull off super complicated stuff, its very impressive and usually sounds awesome. Im still a ways away from that though. But like ive been listening to a lot of Au5 & Fractal lately and they are like gods when it comes to mixing! Like i seriously have some mad respect for their mixing skills

[didi]

when u say db do u mean dbfs?

[nowaysj]

No, he means dididub. db.

I'd recommend going even further, get your kick or snare, whatever is bigger hitting around -12db(fs). And get your monitors to the right volume from there. And then really think about elements as you bring them in. Really check what their peaks are, how much weight they have. Some sounds can fucking slam with low volume and others can take up ALL your head room and just do nothing to create any kind of impact. You want good sounds, that pull their weight, so when they're creating peak, they're pushing the beat.

The fewer elements you have the LOUDER and stronger the mix can be. It really is a mind fuck. Natural instinct is to keep adding and adding. FUCK THAT. It really is a trap. You can create truly huge sounds, by having them be the only thing sounding - a that moment. Of course that isn't right for every track. But if you're a size queen, and you kind of sound like it, less elements = bigger sound, easier to mix. But the rub is then, you've got to make those big stark sounds, actually sound good, like the music actually has to happen. They big sounds need to be arranged in time so that they, by themselves, are compelling. That is hard to do.

Definitely check that thread with MACC.

Literally changed my life. I owe that guy so much it is unreal.