workflow

[didi]

what's ur workflow when ur writing music?

i'm trying to work out how to write music faster and more reliably cos i spend too much time unproductive in fl and i was advised by a mate to develop a routine/workflow that works consistently

drums first?
lead synth and pads first?
drums and bass together?

do u do the same thing every time?

[therapist]

I think having some decent templates ready to go is key. Sure you don't want to use the same sounds all the time but having a project ready with half decent drums/bass/synths etc. when inspiration hits you can make things go a whole lot quicker. Sometimes you just want to turn that idea into something audible as soon as you can.

Having your busses and rough levels in there can speed things up but again you might just fall in to the same routine every time you write a track, not necessarily a bad thing.

Similarly I find a template full of random instruments & effects is great when you don't have an idea/theme to work from and need to come up with something.

[wub]

This thread has been done many times so I'll cut & paste my standard response;

Another thread on this = another cut & paste;

I've ranted on this enough, so am going to be lazy and do a copy paste of a previous rant;

This is copied from a previous thread we've had re; workflow...

Ok, I'm going to be lazy and just quote myself from a previous topic on this subject so bear with me...

Got my main template already set up with several different buses, routing etc etc. I'll usually start with messing around with something. Whatever that something is changes every time I start. Sometimes a vocal sample, a crazy ass effect I've been working on, some synth patterning with modulation, instrument loop from a dusty old 50s record I've sampled, whatever.

I'll play around with that for a bit, loop different bits, chop it up, add effects, bounce & reimport, create some basic patterns etc, find out what works and what doesn't. Once I've got a nice little pattern looping for about 16 bars or so that won't drive me crazy on listening to it hour after hour, I'll start to construct the tune around it. Place the drums where the sample dictates they should be placed, or apply the bassline so that it evolves organically around the sound.

Generally once I've got that done, will work on tidying up the drum programming a bit more, making a few variations of the patterns, spread them out over the course of the tune. Same with the bassline, add some variations, plenty of automation to give it some movement. The tune programming should be evolving organically at this point, as it becomes apparent when listening where the necessary elements should change or drop in/out of proceedings.

I'll usually add a few bells & whistles at this point, incidental sounds, echoey bits, heavily reverbed hi passed sirens, vocal snippets (nb; I mean spoken word samples in this case, not actual vocals), maybe some white noise sweeps etc etc, extra layer of ambience, stretched our snare sample over 64bars to give some background grit, working it into the arrangement to keep things interesting.

Once I've got a rough arrangement of how the overall tune is going to be, I'll bounce out a rough copy, burn onto CD then go whack it on the main system in my lounge. Get myself a cup of tea, sit down on the sofa with a notebook and listen to the track on repeat. I'll make notes as to what I like/don't like, what needs working on etc, then I'll go back to my studio machine and make the necessary changes.

Then it'll just be a case of doing a basic mastering job (not too fussed about mixdowns, these generally get done as I'm working through the tune), and jobs a good 'un.

Basically, starting with the drums is IMO boring as hell. If I start a tune with drums, the tune will be dictated by those drums and anything I add to it after the fact will be added to and around the drums. FUCK. THAT. I'd much rather get some fun stuff going on, samples/pads/synth loops/melodic bits etc, get them looping the way I like then construct the drums around them.

I never listen to a track for the drums. If I'm trying to tell someone what a tune is like, I won't bang my desk to give an idea of the drum programming. Course not, I'll hum the melody, sing a poor version of the vocal, whatever. The fun bits of the tune, basically. And it's for this reason that I'll start with those bits, as those are the bits I want my tunes to be identified for.

That way I'm changing the emphasis of the track from the drums to the more interesting bit. Like thinking of a tune as a sandwich. The drums are the bread and hey, you can't have a sandwich without bread (this isn't an excuse to correct me on sandwich preparation techniques nor is it an excuse to give examples of great sandwiches that don't involve bread so don't bother), but at the end of the day I'm not eating a sandwich for the bread, I'm eating it for the filling.

Taken from here - http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=252959

[therapist]

You sure you made your point clear enough there, Wub? If you hate copying and pasting so much just don't.

[didi]

lol cheers

why r u quoting ur quotes tho?

Generally once I've got that done, will work on tidying up the drum programming a bit more, making a few variations of the patterns, spread them out over the course of the tune. Same with the bassline, add some variations, plenty of automation to give it some movement.

i used to do drums like that but i don't rly like working with patterns that way

.

cheers

im really just wondering if ppl have a specific order/routine/recipe with how they write music cos im trying to find one

[wub]

You sure you made your point clear enough there, Wub? If you hate copying and pasting so much just don't.

I don't mind cutting and pasting, the above is about as concise an answer on this as I can give and covers most bases

lol cheers

why r u quoting ur quotes tho?

Generally once I've got that done, will work on tidying up the drum programming a bit more, making a few variations of the patterns, spread them out over the course of the tune. Same with the bassline, add some variations, plenty of automation to give it some movement.

i used to do drums like that but i don't rly like working with patterns that way

Honestly, think the whole pattern thing comes from FL as my DAW. If/when I switch to Ableton, the process may well change. Bit of evolution is always good

Also none of the above will be applicable if I use an all hardware setup.

[wub]

Does that cut and paste make me out to be a tnuc? Wasn't meant to

[Samuel_L_Damnson]

Drum loop (8 bars) bass on top of that
copy paste, change the second 8 bar section. add fill at end 16 bars loop of drop. copy again adn edit 32 bar section.
then i write the intro.
the the middle bit
then repeat the first bit for the second drop.
if im making dubstep.
although my work flow is shit. i never finish anything.

[nowaysj]

i'm trying to work out how to write music faster and more reliably cos i spend too much time unproductive in fl and i was advised by a mate to develop a routine/workflow that works consistently

Yeah, no duh.

BUT, you've got to find what works for you. There are so many paths up the mountain. And honestly, I don't think that it can be rushed. You just have to go through it. Try all different types of techniques, ways of working. See what works for you. In the end you may patch together three or for ways into one way that is the dididub way.

Also, different types of tracks may have a different kind of workflow. Different genres, with different elements, and different attributes may require different workflows.

I think once you start to really get buff in your knowledge of your tools, of what you want to hear, and of yourself, then the fire starts to come a lot more often.

==

Right now, my big thing is audio in the playlist. Just working with audio. I may use midi bits, but those bits very quickly become audio. I'm doing my drums all in audio. They can come from any place - samples that are placed in a drum sampler vst, or an actual hardware sampler, and then played. Those beats are then chopped and further processed, and then resequenced in audio. I guess I eat the sandwich for the bread. I love the bread. I like drum sounds, I like drum rhythms, weird rhythms, off kilter rhythms, rhythms like a damp flame, that spring to life, and just as quickly go to smoke. I find the best way to get there is with audio, and no grid, no snapping. If I want piece to be regular, I make them regular, but I like putting each piece where I want it. Evaluating where each piece fits best, each time we come through something kind of like a loop. I don't often put stuff in the same exact place. Shit changes up a lot. And I like that. To a large extent, it is just a listening technique. Like you really have to listen to where the hits are happening. Is that the right 'swing' (for lack of a better word) that you want there?

Also can do more micro edits in audio. Just really fine control over envelopes, and various parameters. I feel like putting a device between you and the drum sound, like a vst or a sampler, it is like an intermediary, a middle man, shit gets lost in translation. I like being up in the guts of my audio. Like right there in the audio.

I can do stutters, and little anticipation pauses, in audio. Like doing them in midi or by hand... just doesn't sound right to me all together, anticipations, yes, but not always.

In terms of starting, I'm starting with drums, mostly. I get better results starting with drums (at the very least, better mixes). Get a kick and snare set up. They're like:



The main supports of the golden gate. The backbone, the one and the two. So, spectrally, rhythmically, they set everything. It is from there, that I know where I can fit elements into that framework.

And again, I'm in audio, so as elements come into that structure, I can change rhythmically, just by picking up and moving elements, warping elements, I can move everything as a whole, you know. Like the whole audio pastiche, I can just pick up and move, bend, fuck with, can take in or out little elements.

So, I get a basic beat, kick snare and if I'm decadent, hats, and then I look at what I think of as the music. I really love just the sound of synthesizers. So I might start making a sound, or playing a melody, whatever is clever. Whatever that is, it is probably going to end up in audio. It can be one note into audio, which is then into a sampler to be played as a line, or right as audio into the playlist, where it can be chopped and pitched how I want it. I like making synths sound like voices, like chorused voices, wailing voices, chanting voices

If its not synths, then I may be using samples, again, can be musical instruments, samples of synthesizers, or lines, or it can be nonmusical samples, just sounds, whatever, recorded fabric being pulled over a wooden backed chair, while something falls in the background and a kid's laugh floats through the window. Whatevers. Again, I can play that, that can be in a drum sampler vst to play it as hits, or it can be in a sampler, to play lines, can be in a physical sampler to be played and fx'ed/fucked.

So then I get all kinds of pieces of musical elements. If I'm doing synth stuff, I might start to write lines and develop voices at different octave levels, then some variations of all of those.

Then all that into audio, and start to smush it together, see if some magic will happen, get the flame.

If so, NOW - like *new development happening for nwjz*, NOW I'll start to do arrangement right away. Before I'd stack every thing up, into a thick massive finely tuned 16 bar chunk of music that has little chance of going anywhere. NOW I'll just start doing the arrangement. I'll start laying out sounds for introductory purposes, main section, transitional sections, variation sections, break sections, bridge sections, end sections. It can be really skeletal. It can be if I have drum sections I like, like a four bar drum line, I might roll that out, to have it there, and then I go back when I'm actually writing into that section, I'll then go in and start pushing and pulling, and individuating pieces.

The big trick for me, I don't know how I've figured it out for myself, but the big trick is just to get the song laid out. That is the master blue print. Now, once I've got it all laid out, I know the tone of the song, I start to understand the space, I can see the ebb and flow of what needs to be happening, THEN I can make it happen with drums and synths and instruments and sounds and fx, etc. Like only once I know what it is supposed to look like, what it is supposed to be, only then can I make it be like that! So I'll start to get audio in place, maybe I need more stuff. Find other samples to do things, or back to the synths, write new or different lines, develop new or variations of voices.

Bottom line for arrangement, I used to let the lines dictate the form of the song, and that shit never worked for me, maybe because the lines don't have much to say about the structure of the song. Now I develop the song structure, and fit the lines into what the song is supposed to be doing.

Okay, so all along I'm mixing as I go. Again, I'm using that kick and snare as the backbone. I've got those levels set, kick and snare AROUND -12db. As I bring in elements, I really (REALLY) pay attention to how big the sounds are, how much weight they carry. I honestly used to just stack sounds, bring them in with way too much weight, so I'd be counting on them to carry a lot of force and movement in the track, and then when push came to shove, and I had to start thinning things out, cutting fat (and meat) out of sounds, they'd be weak and wouldn't create the push or pull I needed, the push or pull I had in an unmixed state. So I spend time, I focus on the weight of the sounds, how much they can push the mix, as I bring them in. I'm watching my peaks, feeling out my rms. Really trying to figure out how much dynamic range sounds should have as they come in. Try to get right to it, dealing with that. Try to eq to cut away parts of sounds that don't need to be there, kind of reveal the backbone of the sound itself. Get more intimate with the sounds, actually mean what they sound like more, then when they're fit in, they are in. They make sense, I can expect them to do what I need them to do, and I can move on...

At the end, I should do further mixing, like there is production mixing, that's what I'm talking about above, there is a second mixing I don't do too much off, a sweetening mixing. Just can you make each sound sound a little bit better, a little bit more in the mix, yeah you usually can, but it is maddening. I don't do enough. I guess I have to spend more time here. Honestly, never really had a need, cause songs would never make it all the way to where they needed this. But I'm getting there more and more often thanks to something in arrangement just clicking.

(I've got a folder of like 50 beats that I really liked, like they had something that I was like, this is really special, and now when I listen to that folder, it is like each one, shit is dope, and then either 1. a majorly bad decision happens, and then the track dies, and goes no further, or 2. it just ends cause I don't know what to do, NOW listening back, I've got solutions for each one, I can just know what needs to happen to each one, like I know how to take the next step... I don't know how this happened, but I was stuck at that level for a LONG time, and now, honestly, it is so fucking easy, I'm at an absolute loss, I can't figure out why it was so hard, but it did actually absolutely stump me, frustrate me to the point I'd want to pull out my hair if I had any... so I guess there is hope if you're at where I was, bad news, I was there for YEARS )

So that is kind of an emerging workflow for me. It is hardly fixed, there is probably as much variation of that as there is continuity, but I find myself doing the above more and more. I really like using the sp-404sx or Maschine in standalone in the early parts of the process. Just like hand played elements. Just stuff that is all ears and hands. At least at the beginning.

But didi, those people that are saying solve your workflow, they sound like 'professional' producers. I don't really like professionalism in music or in the arts. I come out of that tradition, but I rejected it. I really don't like people talking about their 'practice' of music making or whatever, their peerage, etc etc etc. I'm way more into magic. I'm more into people really transcending their material existence, and that kind of professional attitude I think thwarts that. I don't know man, not a totally formed thought.