originators or imitaters?

jason burns · Post by **jason burns** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:18 pm

anyone who's ever made a dubstep tune is both imitator and originator. as are we all in most aspects of life.

unless they were just imitators.

wait.

ok what i mean is there arn't any true originals, not really. there's no clear distinction. only degrees of both. in any case you couldn't have a genre if everyone was totally original. i mean a genre is immitative by definition.

stanton · Post by **stanton** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:33 am

It's not necessarily about genres though, it's more about idea's. I think what might be worrying people at the moment is that there aren't as many new ideas or sounds coming out, or that we might be nearing the limits of what can be defined by supposed genre boundaries. Personally I think these people should listen to the new(ish) Bass Clef.

threnody · Post by **threnody** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:37 am

Genres are limitations....people get too caught up with 'is this dubstep' when everything is sound. Obviously in a DJ based industry BPM is important (although look at how Oyaarss is smashing it with tempos as slow as 120bpm!)...Boxcutter breaks out the mould with a variety of styles but all under 'his sound'.

As for innovators v imitators.... I think people do seek influence from dubstep now in the same way earlier artists may have cross referenced (or entirely ripped) dub/ragga...for me the breakstep sound was always more original than the dubby stuff anyway...

I think that people get annoyed and slate artists when they see no innovation or progression in their work. If someone does a blatant stylistic rip then it is not going to prick the ears and will be ignored....
BUT more importantly if an artist just relies on the same drums sound/beat and the same bass sound using the same structure to produce all their tracks and does not try to progress their sound then people are going to start slating them.....just as everyone tends to slate DnB these days for being stale....If you hear the same formula and sounds repeatedly from 1 artist you have a right to think they are stale....having one good idea 8-10 songs ago and repeating it until it dies a horrible death does not sustain a career or mark you out as a good producer even if you were in the right place at the right time to start off with.

Originators have to be constantly innovating to stay ahead of the game and to keep the interest going....Maybe that is why there is sometimes hostility, no one wants a sound to go stale but innovating will be rewarded.

Now the wobble has replaced the dub stab as the cliche to use supposedly, this is just one sound that seems to be at the heart of a dubstep banger in some camps but there are always people doing original things....look at Combat recordings, no 2 releases sound the same and there is a vast array of styles, Urban Graffiti has diversity, Rottun recs has diversity, Hotflush/scuba has diversity, Creative Space IS diversity....Lots of labels pushing different sounds and lots of people innovating with roots in dubstep forming new sounds at different BPMs....This is what keeps a genre fresh and exciting!

ufo over easy · Post by **ufo over easy** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:03 am

good post mr. blaze

djshiva · Post by **djshiva** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:06 am

originator:

imatater:

metalboxproducts · Post by **metalboxproducts** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:10 am

Good optimistic post from Threonody.

Tekki · Post by **Tekki** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:37 am

"put up or shut up" seems to be the simplest way of putting it. "talking about music is like dancing about architecture"

boomnoise · Post by **boomnoise** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:50 am

woland23 wrote:"put up or shut up" seems to be the simplest way of putting it. "talking about music is like dancing about architecture"

writing not talking

joseph-j · Post by **joseph-j** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:58 am

woland23 wrote:dancing about architecture

this sounds like a typically hidious bjork/matthew barney "art" project.

stanton · Post by **stanton** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:12 am

The Dancitechture school only lasted for a few short months before it was subsumed into the Bauhaus along with several other movement based philosophies. What really makes their work stand out for me, and why it is so important, is that it offered us a method for exploring space by setting up rhythms and patterns of agitation. Space was defined by being occupied in time rather than being defined abstractly and removed from usage.

wil blaze · Post by **wil blaze** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:13 am

You can turn absolutely anything into some sorta deep philosophy can't you Stanton? Brilliant! lol

dem2ruff · Post by **dem2ruff** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:09 pm

Just Wanna Say NOTHING Is Original any More Its borrowed And Remixed
from Every Where Every thing we hear
It Works because Its familiar - IE It reminds u of something
Is There a Totally Original Sound ?

shonky · Post by **shonky** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:12 pm

dem2ruff wrote:Just Wanna Say NOTHING Is Original any More Its borrowed And Remixed
from Every Where Every thing we hear
It Works because Its familiar - IE It reminds u of something
Is There a Totally Original Sound ?

True, don't think there's anything in dubstep that hasn't been taken from elsewhere. Doesn't make it bad but doesn't make it innovative either.

stanton · Post by **stanton** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:36 pm

Wil Blaze wrote:You can turn absolutely anything into some sorta deep philosophy can't you Stanton? Brilliant! lol

Out to the Dancitechture massive, your time-space.

robjc · Post by **robjc** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:58 pm

dem2ruff wrote:Is There a Totally Original Sound ?

Well, if you keep to the regular western music structure (which obviously has arabic roots) based around the strictures of 8 bar/scale, then everything has been done before, becasue its a finite resource, and breaking out of this is near impossible as we are so used to this structure that anything else sounds atonal or discordant.

Whether its the pace, or the rhythmic patterns, of dubstep (and of techno) that puts a huge grin on my face, I'm not sure, but I hell like it....

slothrop · Post by **slothrop** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:05 pm

Wil Blaze wrote:I'm not saying that there's nothing to be said for originality. One of the things i like most about dubstep is the fack that there are so many producers pushing different and original angles... but at the end of the day a good tune is a good tune... full stop... and if it gets you moving or makes you feel something then it don't really matter how innovative it is to me!

The thing is, for me (and I might be on my own on this one) hearing a set where I don't know what's going to happen next gets me moving a lot more than a set where every tune is basically a refinement of the same pattern. Hearing tunes that really flip the script and do mental things but still work for dancing is just much more exciting to me than hearing a whole series of tunes where you know exactly what's going to happen next because it'll be the same as in the last tune. And when I'm more excited I brock out and when I'm not excited I fall asleep.

ozols man · Post by **ozols man** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:15 pm

i reckon the only way u can be original is if ur a natural countereactionary individual. as in u hear a sound and if it starts getting too popular, deliberately go out ur way to make something completely different. dont get me wrong though, its not about replacing snare drums with the sounds of someone having a shit or anything like that, its just all about trying to go against the masses at all times...

corpsey · Post by **corpsey** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:24 pm

ozols man wrote:its not about replacing snare drums with the sounds of someone having a shit or anything like that,

I take it you haven't heard the new Burial album yet?

corpsey · Post by **corpsey** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:25 pm

I can't stop smirking at the thought of a tune with the sound of someone pooping instead of snares

This might be the funniest thing I have ever been induced to imagine

wil blaze · Post by **wil blaze** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:37 pm

ozols man wrote:i reckon the only way u can be original is if ur a natural countereactionary individual. as in u hear a sound and if it starts getting too popular, deliberately go out ur way to make something completely different. dont get me wrong though, its not about replacing snare drums with the sounds of someone having a shit or anything like that, its just all about trying to go against the masses at all times...

this is exactly what it's NOT about for me...

i can't stand it when people do things differently just for the sake of it being different and original... i couldn't agree more that innovation and originality are essential for the progression of any art form... but being original just for the sake of being original... well that's just too contrived and deliberate for me...

for me it's just all about being yourself...

if being yourself means making pure halfstep wobble tunes... then rock on...

if being yourself means making entire tunes out of toilet based samples... rock on...

but if you're doing things differently just to be different... well then you're an idiot (imo)

peace

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