UK voter recall

[test_recordings]

So, there's been a bit of serious talk in the House of Commons about UK voters getting the power to recall politicians they don't like and having a re-vote before the next general election. Big dog MPs like David Davis are in support of it (so not all Tories are twats as it might appear) and the citizens' campaign group38 Degrees did some petitioning and pressuring of MPs.

I am in favour of it myself because it would probably make politicians more likely to follow the wishes of the people that voted them in and keep their promises if they knew that they were under threat of being thrown out for not doingso. So, I emailed my local MP, Fabian Hamilton of Leeds NE (coincidentally the biggestexpense fiddler of them all inthe 2010 expenses scandal), and got this reply:

Dear Constituent,

Thank you for contacting me about the Government's proposed legislation on the recall of MPs. I apologise for this impersonal standard response but this is a result of the large number of emails I have received on this topic.

Labour supports recall but there are two key points I would make.

First, I am not in favour of a recall process which is in the hands of Members of Parliament. There is a real risk that such a system will be seen as the political establishment closing ranks on the behaviour of a fellow politician and could lose the confidence of the public.

Second, any system of recall needs to be designed to prevent MPs being kicked out where no wrongdoing has happened simply because some people dislikes the way a politician has voted on controversial issues. For this reason I am not able to sign Early Day Motion 25 as it is unclear in what circumstances the recall process would be triggered.

Recall will play an important role in greater accountability if the detail is right. That’s why my colleagues and I will be closely studying the Government’s plans as and when they are published.

Yours sincerely,
Fabian Hamilton
Labour Member of Parliament for Leeds North East

I agree with the first point, but not the second. Controversial issues include approving student fees, privatising the NHS, and going full on in to two illegal wars, so I think that 'voting choices on controversial issues' should be included. To make it fair, a judge could decide if recall should go ahead in the case of an accusation of a broken promise with the right to appeal from other citizens (not the MP, fuck the MP), and other actions that are not in the spirit of previous promises and actions (to avoid MPs not promising anything so they can't be held against it).

Did any of you even know about one of the most potential significant changes to the UK's system of government since universal suffrage was introduced? It's been very hush hush in the media recently so obviously it must be good for the average person...

Edit: I accidentally erased this post while hungover and replaced it with what was meant to be a reply. This is as it was I think.

[kay]

I've always thought it was weird that in a democratic society it's pretty difficult to call for a vote of no confidence

[test_recordings]

The UK system was never designed to give power to the people though, that's why you only get one choice every five years for how your whole life is affected. The upper class never wanted to let go of the reins so they
only let people choose who tells them what to do so now we have a pretty homogeneous political class that just use different adverts.

Voter recall would at least make voting matter.

[chekov]

Did any of you even know about one of the most potential significant changes to the UK's system of government since universal suffrage was introduced? It's been very hush hush in the media recently so obviously it must be good for the average person...

is this that transnational trade partnership treaty? (or something along those lines)

most ridiculous thing i've ever heard that, is there actually anything we can do about it?

[test_recordings]

No, but it would mean we could get a say on it by telling MPs what we want out of it

[m8son666]

lol they don't even want us to have a say on whether we should be in the EU or not, i don't think this will go through.

Seems like a good idea though

[test_recordings]

Chrikey Mason this is the first thing I haven't seen you try to outright destroy off the bat!

I wonder who voted no and if they'll grace us with their opinion

[m8son666]

cos it's the first good idea ever posted

[Blenky]

Fabian Hamilton's son is a tnuc. Went to 6th form with me.

[scspkr99]

I'd like to see the detail and understand under what conditions an MP can be recalled but I doubt this is something I'd agree with.

[test_recordings]

Why, you like being lied to?

[scspkr99]

I don't think voter recall necessarily increases the honesty in politics. I'd like to see the detail but I think your claim that voter recall can make voting matter a stretch.

The proposal was pretty vague but it only seems to allow recall where serious wrong doing is involved. I don't know that we need voter recall to disbar members who've fiddled their expenses or committed some illegal act.

[test_recordings]

Considering that not a single MP was charged with fiddling expenses, especially Fabian Hamilton as he was the worst, myself and others would quite like an alternative way of removing them. It's a vague proposal right now but the whole point is to debate what voters want out of it, I put some proposals in OP for examples

[scspkr99]

My concern is that we elect governments to govern, yes they should be representative but no they shouldn't be held to specific voter preferences on each vote. We generally don't have government by referendum and there are good reasons for this. If an MP isn't charged with anything how do you think that voter recall should work, what is the qualifying criteria if we want to remove them in the absence of any charge?

[test_recordings]

Did you even read OP? Read my suggestions as to how it could work.

[scspkr99]

I did and it's not clear, how do you define a recall on controversial issues? Don't all issues have the potential to be controversial? What about a controversial issue that is incuded in a parties manifesto, why should voters have the choice to recall MP's for implementing the very policies they were elected to implement.

Also if you allow voter recall on controversial issues doesn't that mean all constituencies that elected a MP that voted in favour are entitled to recall? Given that for it to succeed a majority will have voted in favour the opposition parties could effectively freeroll an election by having their members campaign to recall on this issue across the country?

Actually no scratch that you'd have to allow for voter recall for both votes so essentially every controversial issue could result in every MP being recalled.

I know this may seem daft so I'm asking you to explain why.

[kay]

It may seem like a hassle, but given the right systems it should work. MPs should be accountable for and be able to justify all their decisions. Even if they don't get voted out, this would be a better way to gauge how popular their decisions are.

Ultimately, given the right systems, MPs are irrelevant. Anyone should be able to propose measures and campaign to get them enacted. This does require better voting systems than we currently have but nothing that's unfeasible with today's technology.

[scspkr99]

They are accountable every 5 years I'm not sure on matters of policy we need greater accountability than that. It's not about the technical limitations it's about the complexity in managing the whole of government business with limited resources.

[kay]

MPs have very little to do with managing government business.

[scspkr99]

They vote on the budget and the legislation outlined in the queens speech, these aren't simple decisions that can be resolved by popular vote.