Veganism vs vegetarianism

[cyclopian]

he's in norcal. he can feed them kale and $4 slices of artisnal toast not McD's.

lol kale is expensive as hell and no one really enjoys it eating it, can you imagine getting dozens of diabetic toddlers to eat kale?

Nah, all about those happy meals. Feeding all my toddlers would be a nightmare without god, baby jesus, and mcdonalds.

Welcome to farming 101

[rickyarbino]

How often do you take your kids to macdonalds?

[Shum]

*sigh* can we meet halfway and have you feed your children Wienerschnitzel instead?

[rickyarbino]

Feed them Soylent.

[Phigure]

*sigh* can we meet halfway and have you feed your children Wienerschnitzel instead?

honestly does anyone know where that name comes from

poor little austrian immigrant me was so disappointed to learn that its just shitty hot dogs rather than an actual wiener schnitzel restaurant in america

[Shum]

i eat an alarming number of those "shitty" hot dogs whem i'm over there lol

[Phigure]

still havent given them a cent out of spite

[cyclopian]

How often do you take your kids to macdonalds?

This sounds like a judgmental question.

Get back to me when you're raising a horde of small toddlers for sale as meat in Europe yourself.

You have no idea what its like to be a parent.

[rickyarbino]

My bad man, it wasn't though. My mum and dad used to take me to mcdonald's as a young'n and I loved it every time. I'd always get a cheeseburger happy meal, and on lucky days they'd get me a caramel sundae.

More of a how often should I take my own, if I ever have any.

[ultraspatial]

well there is the animal rights argument that claims all beings have an inherent value via being alive - based, for instance, on the fact that the evolutionary superiority of man is not a valid argument for speciesism considering we treat beings that are inferior in capabilities to us and to animals such as small children (debatable imo), the mentally retarded, the comatose etc better than animals. could also be seen as a bigger part of radical ecology theories that claim that all nature has inherent value and man has not right to interfere other than to conserve or study (without significant impact).

other ecological arguments claim that factory farming, herding etc are harmful to ecosystems because these activities take up all the earth's nutrients leaving noting but barren unusable land. plus exterminating potential predators in the area (in case of herding).

utilitarian arguments tend to be focused more on preferences, rather than rights. in this case an animal's preference for survival/staying alive. even is said preference is smaller in intensity than a man's preference for meat/animal products, the sum of animals' smaller intensity preferences can outweigh that of man's.
can be also used against factory farming, not necessarily against all animal products. like if man's preference for animal products is the same, why not pick more humane ways to obtain it than factory farming which produces more suffering than necessary.

eco-feminist arguments that claim women are/were exploited and dominated in the same way animals and nature in general have been by the rational/cartesian man
etc etc

back on topic tho, the problem with not consuming meat but consuming other animal products is that the way in which these are produced are more or less the same. factory farming for instance.

[DiegoSapiens]

all plants and vegetables are genetically exploited too and so are the workers that cultivate it, that works lot of hours, exposed to pesticides and wins a misery of money

[kidshuffle]

he's in norcal. he can feed them kale and $4 slices of artisnal toast not McD's.

lol kale is expensive as hell and no one really enjoys it eating it, can you imagine getting dozens of diabetic toddlers to eat kale?

I like eating kale. I'll eat it raw like it was lettuce

[ultraspatial]

all plants and vegetables are genetically exploited too and so are the workers that cultivate it, that works lot of hours, exposed to pesticides and wins a misery of money

the difference is that the workers are there of their own will. it's not like they were raised on the plantation and forced to work (well, not anymore)

but i agree that exploitation is present in all types of industrial agriculture

[magma]

*sigh* can we meet halfway and have you feed your children Wienerschnitzel instead?

honestly does anyone know where that name comes from

Schnitzel from Vienna (Wien)

[topmo3]

I'm sure ultraspatial already said all there is to it but here's the TL;DR:

dairy and eggs = basically as bad as meat industry because for example all calves are taken from their mothers like within hours of their birth so they can get bare milkz and put to death if they're male because for the dairy industry male = useless.
SOME organic dairyand eggz is cool but for example in the USA there's iirc basically no regulation for organic farming so it's kinda dodgy. when compared to Finland for example where there's izan regulations for organic farming so it's actually organic if it sez so.

all plants and vegetables are genetically exploited too and so are the workers that cultivate it, that works lot of hours, exposed to pesticides and wins a misery of money

as for workers rights IDGAF. no seriously am I supposed to fucking starve???

[DiegoSapiens]

all plants and vegetables are genetically exploited too and so are the workers that cultivate it, that works lot of hours, exposed to pesticides and wins a misery of money

the difference is that the workers are there of their own will. it's not like they were raised on the plantation and forced to work (well, not anymore)

but i agree that exploitation is present in all types of industrial agriculture

Maybe not in europe but in asia most country workers are much like slaves

[DiegoSapiens]

all plants and vegetables are genetically exploited too and so are the workers that cultivate it, that works lot of hours, exposed to pesticides and wins a misery of money

as for workers rights IDGAF. no seriously am I supposed to fucking starve???

Bit ironic to dont eat animal because of their rights but not caring about humble people geting exploited

[topmo3]

and so are the workers in the textile industry.. and mobile phone industry.. and infrastructure..

basically boycott everything asian and you're golden
but cant see why you're bringing it to the table here

[topmo3]

all plants and vegetables are genetically exploited too and so are the workers that cultivate it, that works lot of hours, exposed to pesticides and wins a misery of money

as for workers rights IDGAF. no seriously am I supposed to fucking starve???

Bit ironic to dont eat animal because of their rights but not caring about humble people geting exploited

i don't think you understand the word irony. it's just a choice. it's just bantz anyway lol

for real tho i buy mostly domestic or organic produced in EU vegetables and i'm confident i don't support slavery

[kidshuffle]

but cant see why you're bringing it to the table here

Because it shows how odd veganism is. It shows how you place an animals life over a human being. If you dont want to see animals be exploited, okay thats cool. But like Diego and you said, most of goods that these people enjoy are made off exploiting human beings....is it all so different just because we're not eating those people? Even if you're doing it for "health reasons"...if you dont live in a climate where veganism is actually doable (like india, maybe a place like cali) or if you're not rich, you're just playing yourself. I dont know many vegans who dont have to take a bunch of vitamins in order to get nutrients. I also know a couple people who have gotten very sick from going vegan.

Its the same kind of hypocrisy I see in those weird new age "environmentalists" who talk about how we need to reduce our foot prints, yet own SUVs to be able to drive to the mountains and go rock climbing for the weekend. Or you then have dumb movements like PETA, who go on a binge releasing lab animals into the wild, only to have them die within a short time span due to them never being exposed to the wild.