Veganism vs vegetarianism

[ultraspatial]

veganism & enviromentalism don't necessarily have to be anthropocentric. resource rationing, restricting reproductive rights and other means of population control have been/are advocated by radical environmentalists.

and the whole you're gonna get sick by going vegan argument is pretty weak. sure, some people can get sick but that doesn't make it a rule or anything.
but yeah being vegan/vegetarian doesn't automatically equal healthy.

fuck peta tho

[3za]

Vegetarian = batty man
Vegan = super batty man

/thread

[wobbles]

If you are either, please do yourself a favor and invest in some whey protein

[kidshuffle]

i understand neither group has to be anthropocentric, hell i'm a meat eater and i'm not anthropocentric - but that doesn't make it any less hypocritical to care about the suffering of an animal so that we can have the convenience to eat, yet you don't necessarily care about the suffering of a human being so you can have the convenience to have clothes on your back/communicate/watch tv/jerk off/etc.

and again, its not so much about "getting sick" its about the myth that going veg/vegan is miles better for you when its not necessarily. by going veg/vegan you're going to miss out on a lot of natural nutrients like B12, omega 3, a lot of amino acids and creatine to name a few, and that can't be denied.

[scspkr99]

Interesting take here

http://www.philosophersbeard.org/2014/0 ... t-for.html

Don't think the ethical arguments for vegetarianism are as clear as is being suggested. If it is possible for animals raised for consumption to have good lives and we can kill them without suffering then it seems utilitarians should support eating meat.

[Harkat]

I'm not a vegetarian or vegan and even if I was would not be outwardly judgmental of anyone else's choice in this (hold tight jesslem saying "would you be judgemental if someone else ate kids?"), but I think what ultra spatial said about the utilitarian angle makes sense

Surely in a moral sense it's more important that a cow gets to live at all than that I get to have a burger, even tho I prefer burgers to most vegetarian food. But at the same time you could also milk the cow without hurting it, which would also provide an economic incentive for farmers to keep cows which would prolly be best for the cows as well, provided they're treated humanely and are "free range" or whatever.

OFC humans are probably more important and I'm not saying that realistically in our current world everyone can live vegetarian and we can treat the animals we get product from nicely. But that's a slightly different IMO. At least I, def when I live in Norway, can probably go vegetarian and buy only certified free range eggs or whatever. But a lot of vegans from PETA or whatever prolly wouldn't even be happy with that, and I'm asking why.

[scspkr99]

Unfortunately milking the cow causes distress in a number of ways the cows are expected to produce more milk for longer and they have the distress of having the calves who the milk is being produced for taken from them.

[topmo3]

but cant see why you're bringing it to the table here

Because it shows how odd veganism is. It shows how you place an animals life over a human being. If you dont want to see animals be exploited, okay thats cool. But like Diego and you said, most of goods that these people enjoy are made off exploiting human beings....is it all so different just because we're not eating those people? Even if you're doing it for "health reasons"...if you dont live in a climate where veganism is actually doable (like india, maybe a place like cali) or if you're not rich, you're just playing yourself. I dont know many vegans who dont have to take a bunch of vitamins in order to get nutrients. I also know a couple people who have gotten very sick from going vegan.

Its the same kind of hypocrisy I see in those weird new age "environmentalists" who talk about how we need to reduce our foot prints, yet own SUVs to be able to drive to the mountains and go rock climbing for the weekend. Or you then have dumb movements like PETA, who go on a binge releasing lab animals into the wild, only to have them die within a short time span due to them never being exposed to the wild.

i'm not placing an animal over human being or anything. I'm sorry but how is veganism doing that? it's just quite simply breaking all ties to the mistreatment of animals / animal labour. shouldn't hurt anyone's feelings. matter fact, in my experience vegans/vegetarians are also advocates of human rights, members of amnesty, peace groups etc.. all that hippie crap goes hand in hand IMO

even if you were right with your ridiculous suggestion that by eating vegetables I somehow support the oppression of the working class or some shit, isn't it at least better to dissociate oneself from all the horrors of factory farming rather than to advocate both animal and human oppression? I mean, I'm fairly sure you and Diegosapiens don't just stick to meat products and leave all the veg and crops out so that you don't contribute to the poor farm workers' plight.

[nobody]

I remember gwa getting wound up over his veggie eating habits in a thread a while ago

Xmas dinner must be well shit!

[ultraspatial]

i understand neither group has to be anthropocentric, hell i'm a meat eater and i'm not anthropocentric - but that doesn't make it any less hypocritical to care about the suffering of an animal so that we can have the convenience to eat, yet you don't necessarily care about the suffering of a human being so you can have the convenience to have clothes on your back/communicate/watch tv/jerk off/etc.

if you moan about rights, exploitation than yeah it's hypocritical
i was merely pointing out that being vegan or an environmentalist w/e doesn't mean you care about human suffering and exploitation

and again, its not so much about "getting sick" its about the myth that going veg/vegan is miles better for you when its not necessarily. by going veg/vegan you're going to miss out on a lot of natural nutrients like B12, omega 3, a lot of amino acids and creatine to name a few, and that can't be denied.

fair. misread you there

Interesting take here

http://www.philosophersbeard.org/2014/0 ... t-for.html

Don't think the ethical arguments for vegetarianism are as clear as is being suggested. If it is possible for animals raised for consumption to have good lives and we can kill them without suffering then it seems utilitarians should support eating meat.

animal liberation is not singer's best work. he admitted it's bait and directed towards the average joe with no experience w/ moral philosophy, economy etc so there's no point in scrutinizing it to death imo
sure the whole veganism as a means to an end argument isn't the strongest but put bluntly to a lot of people that's what it is (regardless of its real effects). cba to look up the exact quote now but singer admitted that becoming vegan means shit without getting politically involved, lobbying etc.
didn't make past this tho cause it's a bit tl;dr atm

[shmurkle]

What moron said you are missing out on omega 3 by going vegan??

In the words of ghetts

DO YOUR RESEARCH

http://m.tesco.com/h5/groceries/r/www.t ... =267676787

Hemp and soya pretty much smashes the fuck out of any meat nutritionally.

[DiegoSapiens]

Vegetarian = batty man
Vegan = super batty man

/thread

[CreamLord]

Nah fuck being a vegan

[ultraspatial]

[topmo3]

lol the intellect is strong

[OGLemon]

I'm not a vegetarian, but I do try to limit my meat intake.

[3za]

^
Batty man on weekends

[OGLemon]

I am about a 1.25 on this scale

[CreamLord]

Define incidental homosexual behavior

[3za]

Fixed the chart

0. Muh
1. wtf
2. wtf
3.wtf
4. gay
5. LESBIANS!!! HELL YEAH!!!
6. really fucking gay