failed nights
-
guerillaeye
- Posts: 1871
- Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:56 pm
- Location: NEPA
where to start....I've been in the biz since about 91 promoting underground parties and clubs. I guess my success rate is fairly decent or I wouldn't still be in the game. I've had my ups and downs and learned alot along the way. I started out doing a form of music that was also not so popular with the general public at the time...RAVE/TECHNO/HARDCORE, call it what you will, clubs didn't want it and the feed back was "we don't play that type of music here." I'll give you an example of a recent success story and then pull some old skeletons out of the closet!
In May of this year me and a couple of mates started a weekly dubstep night called "Pure Filth." We had been Djing about town for a bit, playing the music in second rooms, put out a couple of mixes, did the obligatory opening sets etc and had been involved with a handful of successful Dubstep one off's here in L.A. We knew it was a quite a risk trying to do a weekly, but tired of the inconsistency of gigs and the lack of regular events we decided to go for it.
First things first....Concept.
What is you want to do...what's your idea...what's the vibe you want...Who is your clientele, why do you want to do the night and what do you want to accomplish? Start looking around scouting for possible locations. If you're trying to make big Cheddar...stop reading now, fuck off and go start a "mash-up" or progressive house/trance night with bottle service etc.
If you're still reading, your flyer will be the first contact your future clubbers will have with your night. What is it you're trying to communicate? Who is it you want to attract to your night? The flyer can say alot. Find a good graphic designer, make sure it's someone who can help you express your vision and can give you the look you want. Do some research, ask around, maybe you have a friend who works at a graphics shop doing brochures for "Incontinence Diapers" and is just dying to do something a bit more edgy for their portfolio! Hit em up...but before you sit down with them, come up with some firm ideas, do some sketches, start coming up with names, make a list of potential names for your night and run em by your friends ie get some feed back. Find flyers that you think are good and study them, why did flyer A make it home and why did flyer B end up in the trash. In my opinion, you can't beat the K.I.S.S technique....KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID!
People have short attention spans...Make it bold or subtle, depending what you're trying to achieve. Keep it clean, re-frain from too much text, folks don't wanna read a novel, add some mystery, don't tell the whole story...leave a bit of intrigue...the first piece in the puzzle so to speak, make people want to find out more. I think we're all naturally curious..."whats this all about then?"
Once you've got an idea of what is you want and how you want it to look, your name for the night, your image...you need a place to throw it. How many people do you think you can pull? Can you tie the image of the flyer in with the venue somehow? Time to be honest with yourself here...we'd all love to pull 2,500 hedonistic, dubstep starved patrons through the door...but guess what...it's not gonna happen...yet. So think realistically, you're gonna have to start forming a budget...
How much is the design gonna cost?
How much is the printing?
How much are the Dj's gonna be?
Whats the turn-around time on the flyer ie how long before you get the flyer back after turning in the design? Color flyers used to cost an arm and a leg...now they're cheap as chips!
Do you need to reinforce the sound (most likely!) and if so is the location cool with that? Whats the power situation at the venue? Do they have a turn-of the century fuse box that everytime you drop "Lean Forward" you blow the breaker? Find out! These things are important!
Are you in a residential type neighborhood? Normal upstanding people hate Bass...act accordingly. Learn to walk before you start running, unless you're a seasoned promoter biting off a Friday or Saturday night will be your quick demise (starting out you don't need a huge bar gaurantee and high overhead). Do your night when the club/venue is dark ie not open, you need to keep your overhead as low as possible. What other clubs are going on the same night as you'd like to run yours? You need to minimize your competition...if you're hoping to pull from people from a weekly D & B or Dub club don't do it the same night..get a bit of space between. How many nights will you do before you recoup your costs? What are your ongoing costs? Not as easy as it you thought huh?
End of part 1...TBC
In May of this year me and a couple of mates started a weekly dubstep night called "Pure Filth." We had been Djing about town for a bit, playing the music in second rooms, put out a couple of mixes, did the obligatory opening sets etc and had been involved with a handful of successful Dubstep one off's here in L.A. We knew it was a quite a risk trying to do a weekly, but tired of the inconsistency of gigs and the lack of regular events we decided to go for it.
First things first....Concept.
What is you want to do...what's your idea...what's the vibe you want...Who is your clientele, why do you want to do the night and what do you want to accomplish? Start looking around scouting for possible locations. If you're trying to make big Cheddar...stop reading now, fuck off and go start a "mash-up" or progressive house/trance night with bottle service etc.
If you're still reading, your flyer will be the first contact your future clubbers will have with your night. What is it you're trying to communicate? Who is it you want to attract to your night? The flyer can say alot. Find a good graphic designer, make sure it's someone who can help you express your vision and can give you the look you want. Do some research, ask around, maybe you have a friend who works at a graphics shop doing brochures for "Incontinence Diapers" and is just dying to do something a bit more edgy for their portfolio! Hit em up...but before you sit down with them, come up with some firm ideas, do some sketches, start coming up with names, make a list of potential names for your night and run em by your friends ie get some feed back. Find flyers that you think are good and study them, why did flyer A make it home and why did flyer B end up in the trash. In my opinion, you can't beat the K.I.S.S technique....KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID!
People have short attention spans...Make it bold or subtle, depending what you're trying to achieve. Keep it clean, re-frain from too much text, folks don't wanna read a novel, add some mystery, don't tell the whole story...leave a bit of intrigue...the first piece in the puzzle so to speak, make people want to find out more. I think we're all naturally curious..."whats this all about then?"
Once you've got an idea of what is you want and how you want it to look, your name for the night, your image...you need a place to throw it. How many people do you think you can pull? Can you tie the image of the flyer in with the venue somehow? Time to be honest with yourself here...we'd all love to pull 2,500 hedonistic, dubstep starved patrons through the door...but guess what...it's not gonna happen...yet. So think realistically, you're gonna have to start forming a budget...
How much is the design gonna cost?
How much is the printing?
How much are the Dj's gonna be?
Whats the turn-around time on the flyer ie how long before you get the flyer back after turning in the design? Color flyers used to cost an arm and a leg...now they're cheap as chips!
Do you need to reinforce the sound (most likely!) and if so is the location cool with that? Whats the power situation at the venue? Do they have a turn-of the century fuse box that everytime you drop "Lean Forward" you blow the breaker? Find out! These things are important!
Are you in a residential type neighborhood? Normal upstanding people hate Bass...act accordingly. Learn to walk before you start running, unless you're a seasoned promoter biting off a Friday or Saturday night will be your quick demise (starting out you don't need a huge bar gaurantee and high overhead). Do your night when the club/venue is dark ie not open, you need to keep your overhead as low as possible. What other clubs are going on the same night as you'd like to run yours? You need to minimize your competition...if you're hoping to pull from people from a weekly D & B or Dub club don't do it the same night..get a bit of space between. How many nights will you do before you recoup your costs? What are your ongoing costs? Not as easy as it you thought huh?
End of part 1...TBC
-
thesynthesist
- Posts: 500
- Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:05 pm
- Location: the Right side of Computo's brain...
- Contact:
I used to play in a Live D'n'B band, and we played a bar where people were gathered around trying to watch Bush give a speech on TV while we played.djake wrote:this is nothin do wiv the thread really but fook it
my mates band was told to stop playing at a gig once because there was a 90 year old woman in the bar and was complian about the noise....this was at about 11pm n she was still out
Moral of the story: don't play local dive bars with regulars over 50
-
2sickradio
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:49 pm
some very good points raised in this thread, i used run a night in a bar, when i first moved to edinburgh, playing drum&bass, breaks, with live hip hop, it got to the point where we started to get a name and decided to move to a club venue. we made the unfortunate mistake of picking the wrong venue and our night suffered. having learnt this lesson i have decided to play in a small venue for the launch night of my new night, digitaldub. and see what the reaction is like, and then move to somewhere better if the night looks to have potenial.
the music first bullshit later
Part 2....
Ok so you found a couple of potential spots, that preferably have a dark night or one thats slow (ie two geezahs sitting at the bar drinking Johnny Walker). Does the place already have decks set up and a P.A? If not and you are gonna have to bring one in (add that to your budget), does the place need a dance licence? and if so whats the power situation? You can't run 15 Bassbins off a 20 amp breaker! Now you gotta set up a meeting with the manager/owner. His bottom line is this...he wants to make money. It has to be worth it for him to turn on the lights, pay someone to come in and clean the place up, stock the bar and pay the bartender/barback and doorman/men and pocket a little dough for himself ie he has overhead. Now it's up to you to convince him/her that you are gonna pull x amount of people the first night, x amount the second and after a month you will have a steady crowd etc etc. Most likely he's not gonna be worried about what kind of music you're playing but instead the kind of crowd you draw. The last thing he wants is a bunch of thugs tagging up the bathroom, smoking mad weed but not spending a penny at the bar, starting fights etc. You need to explain that the crowd you are looking to pull are a good looking, fun bunch who are really into music and having a dance and like to knock the drinks back. If you already have a mock up of the flyer, nows the time to whip it out and explain that you will be putting x amount about the town with his address and logo on it. Maybe you have a top DJ that will pull a good crowd of peeps. If his night is quiet or dead, and he likes the sound of what you're saying, he's gonna want to get you going asap...remember, he wants/needs to make money. Convince him/her to give you a month to show them what you're made of, and now it's time to really start busting your ass! Ideally you need to have your flyers out on the streets and have a hardcore flying period for at least a month before your first night. I've pulled it off in a week but if thats the case you have to explain it's gonna take a little longer to build the night. Sometimes the venue is too dope to pass up and you just have to make the jump (especially in L.A where everyone and their brother wants to throw a club night!) I had to do this with my weekly Samurai (been running it for 2 1/2 years now).
So...you've got your concept, got your venue, and you're keeping an eye on your ever increasing budget...now you need to book your Dj's so you can get your flyer designed and hit the streets running!
In Los Angeles the pool of local talent/producers is unbelievable (2/3's of the worlds musicians reside in Southern California!!!) So we're quite spoiled here, how it is in the rest of the country I have no idea.
Chances are you've heard the pool of talent in your area and now comes the task of weeding out the people who play the vibe you'd like to have at your night and may already pull a crowd. Start thinking about residents for your night.
Make a mental note....You need to build the foundation of your night on locals, that's the way to go. Bring in the odd special guest here and there to get some excitement going. If you build it only on guest DJ's only you're in for a rough ride...your resident Dj's are the backbone of the club...don't forget that.
If you're doing your night on an off night...then the Dj fees will drop...Saturdays rule the market, Fridays 2nd, Thursday's then Wednesday...the other nights are considered off nights and you can negotiate better deals. Try and get the help of some hungry Dj's who'd like to build their names along with your night.
So how's that budget looking?
Flyers
Printing
Sound
Local DJ's
Special guests...
Who's gonna run your door, how bigs your guestlist gonna be? Try and keep it low. How much are you gonna charge at the door (don't scare people away with a high door fee). How many heads do you need to pull in order to make dough back. Try and work a percentage from the bar...if you're taking the door the most you'll get is 10% off the bar..maybe 15% if you're killing it. The other way is to not charge at the door at all and work a deal for 20% off the bar. If thats the case...start number crunching. Whats the bar got to make so you can cover your costs...if you have to do this make sure they already have sound...cos if you have to take sound out of that as well...prolly won't work.
If you've got that month secured you want to try and escalate the nights accordingly...Big First night, Good second, Strong third and smash it end of the month so that the owner is suitably impressed (he's making money) and you've hopefully made your investment back.
Now i'll go into how we started Pure Filth Tuesdays and how it went from 60-70 people the first night to closing out 5 months later with 420 people singing along to Mala playing his Cay's Crays remix!
So, we came up with the name...we wanted something seedy, grimey and a bit sexy. If I gave you the full list of names we started with you'd die!
We'd been involved helping a night called SMOG grow, so I wanted to keep it in the family some how.
PURE FILTH! got the name...
next the Flyer...at the time I felt the media was bombarding us all with stories of Paris Hilton this, Nicole Ritchie that, Linsey Lohan caught doing coke etc. I spoke to my good friend Drew whose an excellent designer and promoter and pitched him my idea. "I really want to do something a bit scandalous on the flyers" I said "Let's do pictures of Paris or Britney and Co with there minges hanging out and just black out their eyes!" At first he wasn't feeling it, but then he came up with the idea to make the flyers look like night vision Paparazzi style photos...I'M INNIT LETS DO IT!
Now Location...
I was doing a Friday D & B weekly called Kicks & Snares at this dope Irish Pub in downtown where they had this amazing outdoor patio, a floor down in amongst the skyscrapers...we trucked in a Turbo rig and you could hear it bumping from like 6 blocks away which at the time didn't matter as nobody lived down there although there were loft's starting to pop up on the horizon. People started moving into the lofts and didn't appreciate the bass...time to move. A promoter friend of mine clued me in to this dope basement spot close by so I went to take a look, orinally for my Friday. OH MY GOSH! JACK POT!
Sick spot...Upstairs art Gallery, spacious...downstairs proper split basement speakeasy...it's on..like finding a diamond in the rough, I couldn't believe my luck...excitement starts to build, but this spot wouldn't work for my Junglist crowd, the music and brocking out would scare the owners I thought! (Little did I know how heavy the sound would get and how many folks would start packing in to the place shortly thereafter!)
It took me 3 months of meeting with the owner, the owners sister, their assistents til finally they agreed to let us do it. We set the date, and started to book the Talent and also work on the flyer, did some posters too and set up a myspace account.
End of Part 2 TBC
Ok so you found a couple of potential spots, that preferably have a dark night or one thats slow (ie two geezahs sitting at the bar drinking Johnny Walker). Does the place already have decks set up and a P.A? If not and you are gonna have to bring one in (add that to your budget), does the place need a dance licence? and if so whats the power situation? You can't run 15 Bassbins off a 20 amp breaker! Now you gotta set up a meeting with the manager/owner. His bottom line is this...he wants to make money. It has to be worth it for him to turn on the lights, pay someone to come in and clean the place up, stock the bar and pay the bartender/barback and doorman/men and pocket a little dough for himself ie he has overhead. Now it's up to you to convince him/her that you are gonna pull x amount of people the first night, x amount the second and after a month you will have a steady crowd etc etc. Most likely he's not gonna be worried about what kind of music you're playing but instead the kind of crowd you draw. The last thing he wants is a bunch of thugs tagging up the bathroom, smoking mad weed but not spending a penny at the bar, starting fights etc. You need to explain that the crowd you are looking to pull are a good looking, fun bunch who are really into music and having a dance and like to knock the drinks back. If you already have a mock up of the flyer, nows the time to whip it out and explain that you will be putting x amount about the town with his address and logo on it. Maybe you have a top DJ that will pull a good crowd of peeps. If his night is quiet or dead, and he likes the sound of what you're saying, he's gonna want to get you going asap...remember, he wants/needs to make money. Convince him/her to give you a month to show them what you're made of, and now it's time to really start busting your ass! Ideally you need to have your flyers out on the streets and have a hardcore flying period for at least a month before your first night. I've pulled it off in a week but if thats the case you have to explain it's gonna take a little longer to build the night. Sometimes the venue is too dope to pass up and you just have to make the jump (especially in L.A where everyone and their brother wants to throw a club night!) I had to do this with my weekly Samurai (been running it for 2 1/2 years now).
So...you've got your concept, got your venue, and you're keeping an eye on your ever increasing budget...now you need to book your Dj's so you can get your flyer designed and hit the streets running!
In Los Angeles the pool of local talent/producers is unbelievable (2/3's of the worlds musicians reside in Southern California!!!) So we're quite spoiled here, how it is in the rest of the country I have no idea.
Chances are you've heard the pool of talent in your area and now comes the task of weeding out the people who play the vibe you'd like to have at your night and may already pull a crowd. Start thinking about residents for your night.
Make a mental note....You need to build the foundation of your night on locals, that's the way to go. Bring in the odd special guest here and there to get some excitement going. If you build it only on guest DJ's only you're in for a rough ride...your resident Dj's are the backbone of the club...don't forget that.
If you're doing your night on an off night...then the Dj fees will drop...Saturdays rule the market, Fridays 2nd, Thursday's then Wednesday...the other nights are considered off nights and you can negotiate better deals. Try and get the help of some hungry Dj's who'd like to build their names along with your night.
So how's that budget looking?
Flyers
Printing
Sound
Local DJ's
Special guests...
Who's gonna run your door, how bigs your guestlist gonna be? Try and keep it low. How much are you gonna charge at the door (don't scare people away with a high door fee). How many heads do you need to pull in order to make dough back. Try and work a percentage from the bar...if you're taking the door the most you'll get is 10% off the bar..maybe 15% if you're killing it. The other way is to not charge at the door at all and work a deal for 20% off the bar. If thats the case...start number crunching. Whats the bar got to make so you can cover your costs...if you have to do this make sure they already have sound...cos if you have to take sound out of that as well...prolly won't work.
If you've got that month secured you want to try and escalate the nights accordingly...Big First night, Good second, Strong third and smash it end of the month so that the owner is suitably impressed (he's making money) and you've hopefully made your investment back.
Now i'll go into how we started Pure Filth Tuesdays and how it went from 60-70 people the first night to closing out 5 months later with 420 people singing along to Mala playing his Cay's Crays remix!
So, we came up with the name...we wanted something seedy, grimey and a bit sexy. If I gave you the full list of names we started with you'd die!
We'd been involved helping a night called SMOG grow, so I wanted to keep it in the family some how.
PURE FILTH! got the name...
next the Flyer...at the time I felt the media was bombarding us all with stories of Paris Hilton this, Nicole Ritchie that, Linsey Lohan caught doing coke etc. I spoke to my good friend Drew whose an excellent designer and promoter and pitched him my idea. "I really want to do something a bit scandalous on the flyers" I said "Let's do pictures of Paris or Britney and Co with there minges hanging out and just black out their eyes!" At first he wasn't feeling it, but then he came up with the idea to make the flyers look like night vision Paparazzi style photos...I'M INNIT LETS DO IT!
Now Location...
I was doing a Friday D & B weekly called Kicks & Snares at this dope Irish Pub in downtown where they had this amazing outdoor patio, a floor down in amongst the skyscrapers...we trucked in a Turbo rig and you could hear it bumping from like 6 blocks away which at the time didn't matter as nobody lived down there although there were loft's starting to pop up on the horizon. People started moving into the lofts and didn't appreciate the bass...time to move. A promoter friend of mine clued me in to this dope basement spot close by so I went to take a look, orinally for my Friday. OH MY GOSH! JACK POT!
Sick spot...Upstairs art Gallery, spacious...downstairs proper split basement speakeasy...it's on..like finding a diamond in the rough, I couldn't believe my luck...excitement starts to build, but this spot wouldn't work for my Junglist crowd, the music and brocking out would scare the owners I thought! (Little did I know how heavy the sound would get and how many folks would start packing in to the place shortly thereafter!)
It took me 3 months of meeting with the owner, the owners sister, their assistents til finally they agreed to let us do it. We set the date, and started to book the Talent and also work on the flyer, did some posters too and set up a myspace account.
End of Part 2 TBC
-
jason burns
- Posts: 402
- Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:21 pm
- Contact:
-
ben freeman
- Posts: 1210
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:09 pm
- Location: HBG, Pennsylvania, USA
- Contact:
This topic seems relevant to me as well....as I have finally hooked up with a crew in my medium sized town and am trying to get something going. The deal is, I am the only head in the city who spins dubstep and I have no outlet for it here, except art shows, which my buddy hosts and is hype to let me do whatever. The deal is though, I have no clue how I would get a stand alone night of dubstep so most likely I would have to combine it with other genres. I figure my best bet is to try to have a more urban themed electronic night than the standard house, breaks, trance stuff that is usually here. Right now the strong electronic night in my town is on Thursday of all nights, and a Friday party is getting strong as well. Pretty much only 2 venues in the whole city are open to any sort of electronic music, the rest of the venues only seem to have cover bands and top 40 stuff. Saturday nights are going to be covered as well at one of the 2 venues every other Saturday, which will leave 2 Saturdays out of the month where nothing is going on. I figure these 2 nights will be what I can work with.
The one main problem I find is that the crew that does the Thursday night only gets 200 bucks from the bar to work with, and they do their whole budget from that. I feel that the bar is totally making a killing off that pricing and they should ask for much more so they can pay better, get more dj's and get good sound....which I have done sound for them but they pay too little and I am upping my price.
If I approach this bar about a new monthly night with my crew, ie. 1 Saturday a month for a more urban sound, ie. drum and bass, dubstep, reggae/dancehall....... How do I approach this? Or is it more worth it to just do 1 offs every once in a blue moon? Maybe do it every 2 months? Cause I know most of the kids in the scene here aren't very open about the step...yet. Is it that hard to get peeps from out of the area to come to your events? I mean I know I have travelled for dubstep, but then again, it's for dubwar. I have never been to an event with just local dubstep cats playing, Cause there are none around here.
GRRRRRR frustration..... Gonna have to think about this.
The one main problem I find is that the crew that does the Thursday night only gets 200 bucks from the bar to work with, and they do their whole budget from that. I feel that the bar is totally making a killing off that pricing and they should ask for much more so they can pay better, get more dj's and get good sound....which I have done sound for them but they pay too little and I am upping my price.
If I approach this bar about a new monthly night with my crew, ie. 1 Saturday a month for a more urban sound, ie. drum and bass, dubstep, reggae/dancehall....... How do I approach this? Or is it more worth it to just do 1 offs every once in a blue moon? Maybe do it every 2 months? Cause I know most of the kids in the scene here aren't very open about the step...yet. Is it that hard to get peeps from out of the area to come to your events? I mean I know I have travelled for dubstep, but then again, it's for dubwar. I have never been to an event with just local dubstep cats playing, Cause there are none around here.
GRRRRRR frustration..... Gonna have to think about this.
-
4linehaiku
- Posts: 1038
- Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:10 pm
- Location: Berlin / Edinburgh
Maybe see about doing a one off with the option for more? If you're just doing a local thing you can't lose that much cash even if if it totally tanks. Then if it does go ok make it a more regular thing.
Just promote the hell out of it, and see what happens.
I figure if no-one else is doing it you might as well give it a shot.
Just promote the hell out of it, and see what happens.
I figure if no-one else is doing it you might as well give it a shot.
gwan sam! great tips in there people, dont sleep. pure filth is definately an LA success story as result of people working together to build a weekly to meet the demand for more events.
my advice (along the lines of guerillaeye's post) would be to avoid allienating yourself, or others in your scene for that matter. fuck your beef, dont carry it over from whatever scene it started out in. try to act professional, and if people want to help you, take it! you cant go it alone, and no club's gonna thrive if it's run by a one-man army. (if you got a business card from a guy who was VP, CEO and CFO, what would you think of that company? dont laugh it happened to me recently and i didnt take his business or offer seriously).
my advice (along the lines of guerillaeye's post) would be to avoid allienating yourself, or others in your scene for that matter. fuck your beef, dont carry it over from whatever scene it started out in. try to act professional, and if people want to help you, take it! you cant go it alone, and no club's gonna thrive if it's run by a one-man army. (if you got a business card from a guy who was VP, CEO and CFO, what would you think of that company? dont laugh it happened to me recently and i didnt take his business or offer seriously).
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests