Burial interview in today's Guardian

John Locke · Post by **John Locke** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:53 pm

this aint my area of knowledge, so i'm opent o being shot down by anyone who knows better, but my understanding is that punk came about cos people wanted to rebel against the dinosaurs that rock acts of the 60s had become. people bought the sex pistols cos of what they represented: a threat to the establishment. but this was also marketing.

if u, like a lot of other people, r sick of the mass produced junk machine that currently rules the world of music then this is bound 2 effect yr buying habits. if sum1 comes along that seems a fresh change from this, a threat to the status quo, then u buy into it. I'm not saying burial has some big PR firm behind him or anythin so conspirational, i'm just saying a big part of the current interest in him is due to his anti-image

saying burial is "just about the music" is already positioning him in the market, already his sector of the audience has become clear. this is an image as much as any other

and whats beautiful about it is it leaves US to do all the work of hyping the product ourselves. every other post on this thread is another dose of hype for the new LP, and one done in a much more convincing way than any marketing budget could buy. even if he's just some normal shy bloke who doesnt want the fuss, he's got it working massively in his favour right now

tone.def · Post by **tone.def** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:04 pm

[quote="Battle Gong"]this aint my area of knowledge, so i'm opent o being shot down by anyone who knows better, but my understanding is that punk came about cos people wanted to rebel against the dinosaurs that rock acts of the 60s had become. people bought the sex pistols cos of what they represented: a threat to the establishment. but this was also marketing.

if u, like a lot of other people, r sick of the mass produced junk machine that currently rules the world of music then this is bound 2 effect yr buying habits. if sum1 comes along that seems a fresh change from this, a threat to the status quo, then u buy into it. I'm not saying burial has some big PR firm behind him or anythin so conspirational, i'm just saying a big part of the current interest in him is due to his anti-image

saying burial is "just about the music" is already positioning him in the market, already his sector of the audience has become clear. this is an image as much as any other

and whats beautiful about it is it leaves US to do all the work of hyping the product ourselves. every other post on this thread is another dose of hype for the new LP, and one done in a much more convincing way than any marketing budget could buy. even if he's just some normal shy bloke who doesnt want the fuss, he's got it working massively in his favour right now[/quote]

well put. thumbs up.

seckle · Post by **seckle** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:14 pm

tone.def wrote: music corporate type? you mean somebody in the music business, trying to make a living with music? you say it like its a bad thing. i think "burial" would be a nightmare for somebody like that. no "real" marketable identity, no touring, operating within a small niche scene with minimal following (on the grand scheme). i wonder what burial's sales are. even with all the hype i bet it's not much at all.

it is a bad thing, because the friends i do have in the music business are out of ideas and scared to rock the boat in the corporate music system, because they risk losing their job.

this scene isnt about making tons of money . not about that at all.

tone.def · Post by **tone.def** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:13 am

[quote="seckle"]

this scene isnt about making tons of money . not about that at all.[/quote]

yep that's right, it's a "hobby" you do after your day job, which is why genres and artists like this burn and fade out fast because adult responsibilities (like paying bills) come a knockin' very quickly. that's a shame because the scene has a tough time maintaining itself in the end. the older cats who created and guided the scene from its birth become broke and jaded, and either change their style or disappear altogether (that's what happened to drum&bass leaving it in a state of utter shit).

i work for an independent electronic music label. incorporated, so i guess i'm a "music corporate type." i love it. i can pay my bills, live nice, and work with equally economically satisfied artists to push music in all kinds of creative ways. sucks that good sound economics and business sense doesn't often come with genres like drum&bass and dubstep. in fact in my experience it's usually scorned, chided, or worse yet outright ignored.

ps. sorry to hijack the thread. burial does indeed rock, and i wish him the best. i hope he's around for a long time.

jahtao · Post by **jahtao** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:40 am

Anus! I am currently in China and the government won't let me read The Guardian from here! Cnuts!

feasible_weasel · Post by **feasible_weasel** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:37 am

great interview

nesslei · Post by **nesslei** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:56 am

tone.def wrote:to burial's credit there may not be any flashing banners (if you don't count the one on boomkat), but there is most definitely a clever marketing campaign at work here. whether that is calculated or accidental, i'm not sure, but all this mystery and hype is certainly working to his benefit (no different from any other reclusive artists)

i agree ... the strategy here is possibly to de-strategise, which is certainly applicable in a marketing context. strategy is not a bad thing at all in my view - and burial's conscious decision to maintain a separation between his musikal identity and his personal one is working in his favour - his musik is indeed the focus.

elgato · Post by **elgato** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:03 pm

I think its a horrible shame, but a manifestation of the world in which we live and the dominant political and economic ideology, that we almost inevitably here find the issue reframed in terms of markets and consumption - as if the music has no choice but to be a consumable, a commodity - it cannot be what it wishes to be, only what the market tells it that it is. As if we can no longer dream, that our dreams are subject to supply and demand!

tone.def wrote:i work for an independent electronic music label. incorporated, so i guess i'm a "music corporate type." i love it. i can pay my bills, live nice, and work with equally economically satisfied artists to push music in all kinds of creative ways. sucks that good sound economics and business sense doesn't often come with genres like drum&bass and dubstep. in fact in my experience it's usually scorned, chided, or worse yet outright ignored.

Can you see no reason that an individual might endeavour to keep their expression detached from business? To find a corner of life where they need not concern themselves with it? Where they can find, create and recognise value which is not defined by demand? Art at its best challenges normality, and artistic community at its best creates spaces and opportunities to express and experience outside of dominant cultural, political and economic norms. To me it fundamentally undermines this element of art when it is supported and essentially controlled by economic interests. I understand the choice you have made and the route you have taken, we can all but make the choices which seem right, and I wouldn't usually criticise, but your dismissal of the choices of others shows so little respect to any other way of looking at the world...

masstronaut · Post by **masstronaut** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:25 pm

The interview is excellent. And I don't see much duplication of what's on the hyperdub site for what it's worth. What a churlish thing to say.

I can only imagine people are afraid of being duped and looking foolish because all this cynicism about clever marketing campaigns and invented identities kind of misses the point - it's beautiful music and a great metaphor - just go with it, whatever the truth.

mos dan · Post by **mos dan** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:37 pm

elgato 100% on the money, as usual.

i can't believe someone's even used the phrase 'good sound economics and business sense' in a burial thread.. that's just GROSS

minusdegree · Post by **minusdegree** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:56 pm

I thought it was a good interview. Burial is a breath of fresh air, considering the climate of instant desposable celebrities fostered by such pap as X factor, pop idol, et al. I hope his identity is never revealed

John Locke · Post by **John Locke** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:02 pm

elgato wrote:I think its a horrible shame, but a manifestation of the world in which we live and the dominant political and economic ideology, that we almost inevitably here find the issue reframed in terms of markets and consumption - as if the music has no choice but to be a consumable, a commodity - it cannot be what it wishes to be, only what the market tells it that it is. As if we can no longer dream, that our dreams are subject to supply and demand!

tone.def wrote:i work for an independent electronic music label. incorporated, so i guess i'm a "music corporate type." i love it. i can pay my bills, live nice, and work with equally economically satisfied artists to push music in all kinds of creative ways. sucks that good sound economics and business sense doesn't often come with genres like drum&bass and dubstep. in fact in my experience it's usually scorned, chided, or worse yet outright ignored.

Can you see no reason that an individual might endeavour to keep their expression detached from business? To find a corner of life where they need not concern themselves with it? Where they can find, create and recognise value which is not defined by demand? Art at its best challenges normality, and artistic community at its best creates spaces and opportunities to express and experience outside of dominant cultural, political and economic norms. To me it fundamentally undermines this element of art when it is supported and essentially controlled by economic interests. I understand the choice you have made and the route you have taken, we can all but make the choices which seem right, and I wouldn't usually criticise, but your dismissal of the choices of others shows so little respect to any other way of looking at the world...

i can 100 percent sympathise with burial's decision to keep his personal life and his creative life seperate: I dont DJ, I dont play live. My work is shown in galleries, art festivals etc and I try my best not to attend. One of my films was screened at Cannes and I didnt even show up.

But at the same time I am 100 percent in agreement with Tone Def: Marketing isnt just about making money. there r other forms of success other than financial (such as just getting people 2 pay attention to and value what u do) and marketing and image - selling - r just as much a part of this as anything else.

in the art world when a collector buys an artist's work they r not just buying the physical painting, photo or whatever, they are buying the image and biography of that artist. they r buying a piece of the artist.

I dont like this game and try not to play it. I'm just not interested in the 'business' side of art. i want to create. end of story. but i also understand that my career wld benefit if i had more of a business head and played the game. but i prefer 2 remain broke

elgato, yr sentiments r noble. and in theory i totally agree. but i also know that when sum1 buys my work - whether its music or anything else - they buy bcos of image. whether this image is consciuosly created or 'real' is irrelevant: burial may b the most genuine, straightforward no bullshit person in the world, and may, as argued, only be interested in the music, but i dont believe "the music" is the only reason for his success.

ive already said pretty much the same thing above, but what u describe here is basically "a gap in the market" and the people who agree with yr sentiments, or who dream of the romantic image of a 'pure artist', will buy into it. this means burial has effectively made "not playing the game" a succesful way of playing the game. perhaps accidentally, perhaps not. a cleverer man than me either way.

feasible_weasel · Post by **feasible_weasel** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:07 pm

Battle Gong wrote:
elgato wrote:I think its a horrible shame, but a manifestation of the world in which we live and the dominant political and economic ideology, that we almost inevitably here find the issue reframed in terms of markets and consumption - as if the music has no choice but to be a consumable, a commodity - it cannot be what it wishes to be, only what the market tells it that it is. As if we can no longer dream, that our dreams are subject to supply and demand!

tone.def wrote:i work for an independent electronic music label. incorporated, so i guess i'm a "music corporate type." i love it. i can pay my bills, live nice, and work with equally economically satisfied artists to push music in all kinds of creative ways. sucks that good sound economics and business sense doesn't often come with genres like drum&bass and dubstep. in fact in my experience it's usually scorned, chided, or worse yet outright ignored.

Can you see no reason that an individual might endeavour to keep their expression detached from business? To find a corner of life where they need not concern themselves with it? Where they can find, create and recognise value which is not defined by demand? Art at its best challenges normality, and artistic community at its best creates spaces and opportunities to express and experience outside of dominant cultural, political and economic norms. To me it fundamentally undermines this element of art when it is supported and essentially controlled by economic interests. I understand the choice you have made and the route you have taken, we can all but make the choices which seem right, and I wouldn't usually criticise, but your dismissal of the choices of others shows so little respect to any other way of looking at the world...
i can 100 percent sympathise with burial's decision to keep his personal life and his creative life seperate: I dont DJ, I dont play live. My work is shown in galleries, art festivals etc and I try my best not to attend. One of my films was screened at Cannes and I didnt even show up.

But at the same time I am 100 percent in agreement with Tone Def: Marketing isnt just about making money. there r other forms of success other than financial (such as just getting people 2 pay attention to and value what u do) and marketing and image - selling - r just as much a part of this as anything else.

in the art world when a collector buys an artist's work they r not just buying the physical painting, photo or whatever, they are buying the image and biography of that artist. they r buying a piece of the artist.

I dont like this game and try not to play it. I'm just not interested in the 'business' side of art. i want to create. end of story. but i also understand that my career wld benefit if i had more of a business head and played the game. but i prefer 2 remain broke

elgato, yr sentiments r noble. and in theory i totally agree. but i also know that when sum1 buys my work - whether its music or anything else - they buy bcos of image. whether this image is consciuosly created or 'real' is irrelevant: burial may b the most genuine, straightforward no bullshit person in the world, and may, as argued, only be interested in the music, but i dont believe "the music" is the only reason for his success.

ive already said pretty much the same thing above, but what u describe here is basically "a gap in the market" and the people who agree with yr sentiments, or who dream of the romantic image of a 'pure artist', will buy into it. this means burial has effectively made "not playing the game" a succesful way of playing the game. perhaps accidentally, perhaps not. a cleverer man than me either way.

indeed in a world where ur judged on how u look first and not ur music, like branding cattle for potential buyers....its a good thing that he keeps mysterious.

elgato · Post by **elgato** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:42 pm

Battle Gong wrote:I dont like this game and try not to play it. I'm just not interested in the 'business' side of art. i want to create. end of story. but i also understand that my career wld benefit if i had more of a business head and played the game. but i prefer 2 remain broke

Big up to you. Your 'career' would benefit, but what is a 'career' and what does it matter? And more importantly, at what sacrifice?

Battle Gong wrote:elgato, yr sentiments r noble. and in theory i totally agree. but i also know that when sum1 buys my work - whether its music or anything else - they buy bcos of image. whether this image is consciuosly created or 'real' is irrelevant: burial may b the most genuine, straightforward no bullshit person in the world, and may, as argued, only be interested in the music, but i dont believe "the music" is the only reason for his success.

...what u describe here is basically "a gap in the market" and the people who agree with yr sentiments, or who dream of the romantic image of a 'pure artist', will buy into it. this means burial has effectively made "not playing the game" a succesful way of playing the game. perhaps accidentally, perhaps not. a cleverer man than me either way.

The thing that I find difficult to accept is that by this argument these philosophies and beliefs, and art and creativity, are completely subsumed by market ideology. I do not want to accept a world or belief system by which something as beautiful as creativity and expression is simply incorporated into, and subservient to, markets.

I refuse to accept that Burial himself has necessarily made not playing the game into a successful way of playing the game - the market has done that, by defining the way that we think, and therefore determining the way we perceive his actions and his identity - the only reason he is necessarily 'playing the game' is because people perceive him to be. Thats what I'm talking about above - the music and the man have no option - 'they are what the market tells them they are'...

John Locke · Post by **John Locke** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:01 pm

elgato...i also find it difficult to accept: hence why i'm skint. But thats how it is.

Otherwise, yeah, I agree with all u say.

in this case it works in burials interest tho, even if its imposed on him by market forces

elgato · Post by **elgato** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:10 pm

nice one, big up

guerillaeye · Post by **guerillaeye** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:07 pm

jahtao wrote:Anus! I am currently in China and the government won't let me read The Guardian from here! Cnuts!

word.. try https://www.vtunnel.com/

kidlogic wrote:I use https://sp-1.info - you can substitute the 1 for any number 1-9 if it doesnt work or is slow...

we used to be able to use sureproxy.(something) (google it) but too many peeps were on it so it got blocked.

My work has some badass blocking software

My work has some badass blocking software.. not too far off from the great firewall of china.

tone.def · Post by **tone.def** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:51 pm

to elgato and maybe mos dan, sorry if i've offended your delicate sensibilities but last time i checked, this was a largely capitalist and commodified world we live in (especially in the west) and whether you like to "accept" or "believe" that, at then end of the day art and music is in fact a commodity.

maybe if the "underground" heads realized that, then they'd know that music does in fact have value and illegal downloading and such is destroying an artist/musician's ability to continue making art and music. it's romantic to think economics has no bearing on art/music, but that's a bit naive and short sighted isn't it?

that said, i really doubt burial operates under some preconceived and calculated marketing scheme, but as somebody else mentioned. . .his success has not been entirely dependent on just the "music." he's the quintessential underground hero that exemplifies some of the original ethics of the "rave" scene: anonymity, mystery, low-tech DIY (burial only uses sound forge and claims he doesn't know much about production!), working against the "establishment," exclusion from and derision of a larger more corrupt/conservative mainstream society, etc.

interestingly enough the "music" itself is very representational of that nostalgic feeling for simpler, nobler times of yesteryear with all the ghostly rave horn samples, vocals, mantasms etc. we've all bought into it on a variety of levels, whether we want to admit it to ourselves or not. it's genius. good for burial, and much thanks to the press for stoking up the flames of hype. great article mos dan!

crytuff · Post by **crytuff** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:05 pm

Burial's privacy stems from a fascination with what he describes as the "dark light" of UK club culture - enjoying music more the less you know about its makers.

I agree with his sentiments. Burial's attitude towards his music and publicity is similar to that of the legendary Basic Channel/Rhythm & Sound guys. Their anonymity allows us to focus solely on the music. Whether the no-market marketing is successful or not I'm sure is irrelevant to them. The fact that both artists have produced top-notch music that has a timeless feel to it is a reflection of this brilliantly understated attitude, I believe.

slothrop · Post by **slothrop** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:51 am

Burial's privacy stems from a fascination with what he describes as the "dark light" of UK club culture - enjoying music more the less you know about its makers.

So it is a calculated thing to some extent, then? Not neccessarily to sell records, but not purely because he doesn't want to be harrassed by the dubstep paparazzi or something.

Fair play, I hadn't thought about it that way. It's fair to say re 'anti-image' or whatever that "Burial is a south london producer whose real identity is shrouded in mystery" is far more of an 'image' than "Burial is Joe Bloggs from South London. He's basically quite average" though. Whether that's what it was meant to be or not.

Burial interview in today's Guardian

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