Burial in The Guardians 1000 albums to hear before you die

[bribkin]

well that shows you care (and i doubt a PR put you onto it lol).



i hereby retract my comments on the gender divide. the colour thing is harder. i dont think there any black writers at plan b either ; )

that is interesting. isn't it true mel that you have to really argue your corner to get 'underground' non-guitar stuff in plan b, just as people do for the guardian?
.

YES! well possibly not quite so much but yes still
well there always seems to be something with every publication. like for iD, your subject has to be pretty so they can get cassetteplaya to do a photoshoot and some jeremy scott clothes. and for RWD you can't be analytical. and for the WIRE you have to have a beard. so i am going to go and stick my head in an academic sandpit forever.



but actually whoever it was that posted about common, well that's not my point, i'm not talking about which LP is better, i'm talking about what critical motives underly this 1000 LPs selection. follow the logic of the thread bruv.

although his new stuff is really weird demi-jesus stuff. has anyone seen the video for 'the people'? wtf?!?!?

i used to love him.

[mos dan]

well that shows you care (and i doubt a PR put you onto it lol).



i hereby retract my comments on the gender divide. the colour thing is harder. i dont think there any black writers at plan b either ; )

that is interesting. isn't it true mel that you have to really argue your corner to get 'underground' non-guitar stuff in plan b, just as people do for the guardian?
.

YES! well possibly not quite so much but yes still
well there always seems to be something with every publication. like for iD, your subject has to be pretty so they can get cassetteplaya to do a photoshoot and some jeremy scott clothes. and for RWD you can't be analytical. and for the WIRE you have to have a beard.

lol!! especially at the wire slewage.. DEADED

[bribkin]

And just to stretch this analogy to snapping point... well the reception of 'Electric Circus' was way more patchy than reception of 'Skream'. And then everyone seemed to like Common when he went all Kanye and totally dumbed down, which was one of the worst things that ever happened in music. (almost as bad as Cannibal Ox's absence from the Guardians 1000 LPs you have to listen to before you die).

And maybe it is indicative of an impasse between mainstream criticism and rave-based music. And when that music has difficult adjusting itself to LP form, which Michael Hann's post asking what LPs to listen to makes crystalline, the problem is more acute.

And yes I have been thinking about this all day.

Also I've read all the Guardian supplement and most of it, I think, is really good. Plus you've gotta give them props for doing it in the first place, and for it not just being some back patting exercise.

[bribkin]

Cos like water for chocolate is flippin shite. Well it's not THAT bad but it spends too much time wandering off and patting itself on the back for its sense of 'musicality'. It meanders rather than flowing straight. '6th Sense' extends far beyond the level of a lot of other tracks on there and I think there's a reason for that.

and also how is music that just goes in one line always a good idea?
BORING!

[Jubz]

Cos like water for chocolate is flippin shite. Well it's not THAT bad but it spends too much time wandering off and patting itself on the back for its sense of 'musicality'. It meanders rather than flowing straight. '6th Sense' extends far beyond the level of a lot of other tracks on there and I think there's a reason for that.

and also how is music that just goes in one line always a good idea?
BORING!

Well of course it isn't always a good idea, but I'd rather hear an album of straight up soulful beats from Common rather than an album that veers of on a tangent that comes all too close to flaccid neo-soul. I think as an MC Common works better on more straight forward beats it gives his concepts room to breath. Any way bit of side track.

[Jubz]

but actually whoever it was that posted about common, well that's not my point, i'm not talking about which LP is better

Yeah well I was, it was a discussion I fancied having.

[shonky]

but actually whoever it was that posted about common, well that's not my point, i'm not talking about which LP is better

Yeah well I was, it was a discussion I fancied having.

Maybe you should start a thread about it?

[bribkin]

haha
no come on he can have it here there isnt a common forum

[shonky]

haha
no come on he can have it here there isnt a common forum

It's not strictly posh either is it?

[Jubz]

but actually whoever it was that posted about common, well that's not my point, i'm not talking about which LP is better

Yeah well I was, it was a discussion I fancied having.

Maybe you should start a thread about it?

My mind doesn't work like that.

[Jubz]

It doesn't work at all

[shonky]

It doesn't work at all

[contakt]

I've been thinking about this too...

On one hand we want to spread the word about dubstep. By doing that, you can strengthen the scene, draw in new producers, promoters, people who are going to take things forward. Which is a good thing.

On the other hand, things could be stretched to breaking point and dubstep could burst at the seams. It may not withstand the trauma of being pushed out of its safe little hole in the underground - as has happened with so many other scenes in the past.

Maybe its a good thing that the mainstream press doesn't fully pick up on and push dubstep? We can do that ourselves. Sure, it's great when someone's tune or album gets mentioned or a DJ gets a profile...but do we really want more than that? Doesn't this music NEED to stay underground to retain what makes it special (not because of misplaced snobbery or 'cooler than thou-ism')?

What do you think?

[shonky]

Maybe its a good thing that the mainstream press doesn't fully pick up on and push dubstep? We can do that ourselves. Sure, it's great when someone's tune or album gets mentioned or a DJ gets a profile...but do we really want more than that? Doesn't this music NEED to stay underground to retain what makes it special (not because of misplaced snobbery or 'cooler than thou-ism')?

What do you think?

Nothing's underground nowadays though is it, as soon as a mix is available on the net, a style is global, it's merely a matter of a tiny amount of research, not having to travel to London to attend the clubs, buy the records, etc like it was when I was younger. Now the amount of effort required is simply to point and click and d/l.

Out of the generation I know that still go out clubbing, everyone seems to be aware of dubstep, it's not like a secret any more. I think what's way more harmful is people coming to the scene with a preconceived idea of what dubstep is and making it more formulaic. I find it a bit odd that Burial seems to be one of the few artists that isn't easily copiable or particularly representative of the club side, yet seems to be the artist that people are most aware of.

There will be a mainstream and there will always be a reaction against that, but underground isn't as covert as it was.

[7"]

Errr... so i can die for now, listened at least for an album eh.
How good

[duncanw]

You're right: we don't do enough about dubstep or other underground non-guitar music. The main reason for that is the shortage of writers who can actually write for the Guardian.

I find that really hard to swallow, on two counts. First, that you genuinely believe the Guardian doesn't do "enough" underground music coverage. Honestly? Relative to any mainstream music genre, these are tiny scenes both commercially and in terms of the number of punters they attract. Those punters are used to reading about "their" sounds in niche publications, blogs, and on message boards. So why change? It's not like there's a big market there for you to capture - and if you up your coverage of underground scenes, don't your existing readers lose out on coverage that they want to see?

The only edge I can see for you in increased coverage of these scenes is a reputational one - that the Guardian's music coverage might start to be seen as a bit more happ'nin. And where's the payback for you in that?

Second, that you can't find people who can "write for the Guardian". Good grief. In what way is it a "different discipline" to write for a niche mag and to write for a daily? A different audience, fine - but I'd have thought that anyone capable of writing decent copy for one audience would also be smart enough to adapt to the needs of another.

I think you're being disingenuous: you're perfectly happy with the status quo, and you could find good writers if you wanted to change.

[titchyschneider]

i hereby retract my comments on the gender divide. the colour thing is harder. i dont think there any black writers at plan b either ; )

there arent many or any black writers at most music mags, even the ones covering black music!

[titchyschneider]

the only common album that should have been in there is resurrection.

they should have nas' illmatic in there too but theyll probably go for nastradamus

[xor]

You're right: we don't do enough about dubstep or other underground non-guitar music. The main reason for that is the shortage of writers who can actually write for the Guardian.

I find that really hard to swallow, on two counts. First, that you genuinely believe the Guardian doesn't do "enough" underground music coverage. Honestly? Relative to any mainstream music genre, these are tiny scenes both commercially and in terms of the number of punters they attract. Those punters are used to reading about "their" sounds in niche publications, blogs, and on message boards. So why change? It's not like there's a big market there for you to capture - and if you up your coverage of underground scenes, don't your existing readers lose out on coverage that they want to see?

The only edge I can see for you in increased coverage of these scenes is a reputational one - that the Guardian's music coverage might start to be seen as a bit more happ'nin. And where's the payback for you in that?

Second, that you can't find people who can "write for the Guardian". Good grief. In what way is it a "different discipline" to write for a niche mag and to write for a daily? A different audience, fine - but I'd have thought that anyone capable of writing decent copy for one audience would also be smart enough to adapt to the needs of another.

I think you're being disingenuous: you're perfectly happy with the status quo, and you could find good writers if you wanted to change.

Of course it's all about kudos, but in small doses...just enough to seem 'edgy' but not enough to alienate regular readership. Too much coverage will ultimately blunt and kill the scene...the status quo as it stands regarding dubstep broadsheet coverage, suits me just fine.

[roo]

as to the decision about common tho - well they do say they wanna chose the least obvious choice when it comes to artist based decisions, and electric circus is pretty interesting. and that's stickign their necks out a bit as well because even common has kind of disowned that album.

but that takes us back to the burial because of all the dubstep stuff it's far far far the most obvious choice. which would be exemplar of what i'm talking about.

pinch or kode 9 or skream should have been in there. although i see there is a means to write to them and say so...

i think to the readers on this forum burial is an obvious choice but to a broad spectrum of Guardian readers
burial appearing on this list would seem unique.

the general reader is more likely to have heard of Common than of dubstep as a genre so i believe the
idea of picking an alternative album applies more directly to him because his mainstream success means most people
already know his 'obvious' album whereas featuring a dubstep album would seem an alternative
decision in itself due to its relatively small popularity.

specifically to dubstep burial is obvious but considering this list wouldve probably been written
for a general music fan the fact his album appears in there isnt obvious.