vegetarians...

metalboxproducts · Post by **metalboxproducts** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:28 am

Gotta say im well into eastend weasal fighting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65QwXDX6Ds0

efa · Post by **efa** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:40 am

OK 30 minutes in and I have to take issue with the presentation of some of the facts, saying this is "not isolated" & "the industry standard" and then showing what is obviously hillbilly, dodgy farming techniques and the Kosha stuff (which I have no knowledge of until today) is not giving people informed choices.

The main issue I have is with the slaughter and this issue remains however I am torn between these things and the fact that buying free range produce is better and fish is good for you and I enjoy it. This is why I make informed choices about where I source all my animal produce and I urge everyone to watch this documentary and challenge the behavioral reasons a lot of people eat what they do.

@ Parson, do you eat, wear animal produce?

@ BMP, have you ever battered a Weasel?

badger · Post by **badger** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:49 am

EFA wrote:@ BMP, have you ever battered a Weasel?

why do you think feasible_weasel's stopped turbo posting?

metalboxproducts · Post by **metalboxproducts** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:23 pm

badger wrote:
EFA wrote:@ BMP, have you ever battered a Weasel?
why do you think feasible_weasel's stopped turbo posting?

Kicked his face off. lol

masstronaut · Post by **masstronaut** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:33 pm

EFA wrote:how many veggies eat Chickens Eggs, Cows Milk, Butter and Cheese (rennet free of course) etc

It wasn't really intentional but the only animal product I eat now is chicken eggs and I get organic free range as it really doesn't cost much more. Most of the veg I get is from a local organic producer so it doesn't travel more than a few miles and tastes great. I really really enjoy my food and I feel good. If your diet is sorted out there's nothing you miss out on. I'm not a total fascist about it, it just feels right for me. You can save money, save the planet, reduce suffering and get healthy at the same time. Why would you not want to do that?

chunkie · Post by **chunkie** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:51 pm

been veggie almost ten years now and with the introduction (and popularity) of quorn etc buying food has got a lot easier, especially when it comes to eating out - it doesnt have to be pasta with some sort of cheese and tomato!

as far as the wide-sweeping generalisations being made about the vegetarian mindset - i'm vegetarian because i believe in reincarnation and stages of the spirit, not because the slaughter of animals is genocide etc

i agree with Shonky's friends here i think the key to it all is understanding the base facts of the meat industry and not picking examples like the kosher/halal process and trying to apply them across the board

monkeytown · Post by **monkeytown** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:33 pm

Quite a lot of vegetarians are vegetarians just because they dont like meat.

Im not one of them, but I have friends who are, and end up cooking for them regularly

But my favourite veggie meals are,

Asparagus risotto with portabello mushrooms
Puff Pastry tart with sliced beef tomatoes and pesto
Fried Halloumi with a bit of worcester sauce
Sweet Potato and Spinach Curry

Did anyone read the vegetarian's guide to xmas in the metro yesterday.

efa · Post by **efa** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:09 pm

masstronaut wrote: It wasn't really intentional but the only animal product I eat now is chicken eggs and I get organic free range as it really doesn't cost much more.

Oh it does, more than double! But its worth it and those partially congeled nucelus taste much better =]

So no milk then? I have Goats milk and Cows Cream occasionally (in coffee etc)

Most of the veg I get is from a local organic producer so it doesn't travel more than a few miles and tastes great. I really really enjoy my food and I feel good. If your diet is sorted out there's nothing you miss out on.

Do you take any substitute for EFA's?

I'm not a total fascist about it, it just feels right for me. You can save money, save the planet, reduce suffering and get healthy at the same time. Why would you not want to do that?

Hear hear but I don't think you need to be total veggie to do that.

Chunkie wrote:been veggie almost ten years now and with the introduction (and popularity) of quorn

Stay away from this filth, plenty of better alternatives to this shite.

as far as the wide-sweeping generalisations being made about the vegetarian mindset - i'm vegetarian because i believe in reincarnation and stages of the spirit, not because the slaughter of animals is genocide etc

I agree, I may become a full veggie in the future but over the past 2 years I've been undergoing a transition where I'm testing which food I like/need etc and am finding that after removing certain foods from my diet I know don't like them. I was brought up on meat so never really had the outsider view I have now, I'd recommend it to anyone.

i agree with Shonky's friends here i think the key to it all is understanding the base facts of the meat industry and not picking examples like the kosher/halal process and trying to apply them across the board

Absolutely, and veal, which Ive never had but saw mentioned in the Documentary posted above. Dodgy practice is evident everywhere the trick is to inform yourself and avoid funding it - not always easy! Is halal similar to Kosha then? Cos if so I may have to stop eating at a few indian restaurants cos thats detestable!

chunkie · Post by **chunkie** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:28 pm

EFA wrote:
Chunkie wrote:been veggie almost ten years now and with the introduction (and popularity) of quorn
Stay away from this filth, plenty of better alternatives to this shite.

Is halal similar to Kosha then? Cos if so I may have to stop eating at a few indian restaurants cos thats detestable!

re. quorn i very rarely have it but its just the most obvious example of how supermarkets are now catering for veggies and that ready meals beyond a cheese&onion pasty are available - dont need to go to organic/veggie specialist shops (although whenever possible i do go to the specialist outlets bcos their selection is jaw-dropping!)

process for halal meat = slice the throat of the animal open and recite prayers over it until all the blood has drained out

p.s - i am massively skeptical about whether this actually happens (given the obvious time lags in slaughtering animals and commercial repercussions) and a friend's friend works in an abattoir up north and told me that in order to be able to label meat as halal the regulations only require them to play an islamic prayer tape as they run the animals through the slaughterhouse..... ultimately bit of a judgement call i think

chunkie · Post by **chunkie** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:31 pm

EFA wrote: Is halal similar to Kosha then? Cos if so I may have to stop eating at a few indian restaurants cos thats detestable!

wikipedia says:

In the Halal Cut the animal has to be slaughtered with a sharp object (knife) and in a fast way so that the pain of slaughter is minimised.

Zabiha is an Arabic word which means ‘slaughtered’. The ‘slaughtering’ is to be done by cutting the throat, windpipe and the blood vessels in the neck causing the animal’s death without cutting the spinal cord. The blood has to be drained completely before the head is removed. The purpose is to drain out most of the blood which would serve as a good culture medium for micro organisms. The spinal cord must not be cut because the nerve fibres to the heart could be damaged during the process causing cardiac arrest, stagnating the blood in the blood vessels.

Despite modern methods such as electronic stunning, Halal cuts are often done on live animals that bleed to death while they're conscious. While dying, the animal struggles, writhes, shakes and kicks. Controversy has been stirred in western nations regarding cruelty to animals.

There is still considerable controversy surrounding the practice. The Farm Animal Welfare Council of the United Kingdom(FAWC), which advises the British government on how to avoid needless cruelty to livestock, says the way Kosher and Halal meat is produced causes severe suffering to animals

badger · Post by **badger** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:50 pm

by kosha are you meaning kosher as in jewish foods? because in that their slaughter method (shehitah) is much the same. cut the jugular with a very sharp knife so that blood pressure drops and the animal goes unconscious straight away and bleeds to death painlessly and humanely

efa · Post by **efa** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:54 pm

Year, sorry - and no thats not what I've witnessed on the EARTHLINGS documentary above, they have an elaborate system with a clamp for the animal so they don't come into contact with it, this causes complications and the rules certainly weren't being followed in the example shown as the animal ended up with its innards hanging out of its throat and writhing around in its own blood. NOT HUMANE!

perkalerk215 · Post by **perkalerk215** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:01 pm

Shonky wrote:
Yep that's pretty much it. There is alos the issue of what would happen to the animals if they weren't slaughtered, as presumably they would still breed and still take up space (although I get the idea that a lot of "breeding" is done via IVF) - we eradicated all of our rival predators, so there would be nothing to keep the numbers down. Chickens would be killed by foxes or cats unless we put the effort into housing them and fencing them which let's face it is unlikely if there's no cash in the equation.

Personally I'm getting to the point where I might well try going fully veggie again, cause I totally see that it's kind of pointless where other sources of protein and nutrition can be found. The meat eating thing is mostly about survival in areas where vegetation is scarce or unsuitable for humans and is thus a source of nutrition where none other exists. In a world where we have choices though, the cruelty of it is almost entirely unnecessary and selfish. No-one is going to die from not eating meat.

And Parson, my friends are mostly pretty spot on about this stuff, one's actually done time for being beaten up by the cops whilst trying to disrupt a hunt (9 months). They're looking at points of view that will not be considered by most vegetarians and realise that some tough choices need to be made on an ecological level if the planet is to continue for all species. It's mostly a problem caused by the overbreeding of cattle for meat and the waste products involved.

i really want to say that most people jump to their own defense when eating meat is brought up by saying..."we are carnivores we need meat. even cavemen ate meat", etc......they arent thinking about the fact that we are the most intelligent creatures on the earth and that we have the ability to make choices....the choice to eat meat or to not eat meat. and if you dont eat meat, dont be ignorant and say you hate a lot of vegetables. i believe that as vegeatrians, we have a lot more choices as far as variety goes in our diet. and all of it is extremely healthy and so much better for you.

it really irritates me when people just jump to the conclusion that animals are our food and why are they here or what would happen if we all stopped eating them...they would overpopulate...this and that....well wrong. if anything we are putting more effort and hurting the earth far more than if we just stopped eating them. and im sure the world would be a little bit more peaceful.

it just goes to show that fuck the death penalty. fuck telling people what is wrong and what is right....law is ridiculous if they allow animals to be beaten senseless and tortured before their death. or certain animals still even used as meat because their eyes are infected and ripped out of their head. or they let pigs fall out of an 18 wheeler truck that they were just stuffed in one on top of another for hours to the slaughter house and have their legs broken....who thinks that this is ok? who would sit there and watch this all be done to these poor animals and then go eat a steak?....you heartless selfish bastards. its called choices. back then there werent many vegetables and different sources of protein. we know a lot now....there are crazy amounts of options and if youre the type to just not even care and keep eating your meat every day and laugh that its a tasty cow or chicken....then i hope you suffer in whatever afterlife or rebirth you go through...

thats all im saying for now...

i-line · Post by **i-line** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:24 pm

JunglistHybrid wrote: whole grain bread with earth balance

wtf

i-line · Post by **i-line** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:29 pm

nice post by the way perkalerk. I know what you mean, I find it hard to believe that the world would become overpopulated by cows (for example) if we stopped breeding them for meat. I don't find the countryside to be too ravaged by fairly stable existing wild cattle population!

perkalerk215 · Post by **perkalerk215** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:32 pm

i-line wrote:nice post by the way perkalerk. I know what you mean, I find it hard to believe that the world would become overpopulated by cows (for example) if we stopped breeding them for meat. I don't find the countryside to be too ravaged by fairly stable existing wild cattle population!

thank you...i tend to go off and never be able to type out an entire thought without jumping into something else....so it might have been a little all over the place. sorry. but yeah. you get it.

efa · Post by **efa** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:38 pm

Year, well said man however this I dont agree with...

perkalerk215 wrote:we are the most intelligent creatures on the earth.

perkalerk215 · Post by **perkalerk215** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:42 pm

EFA wrote:Year, well said man however this I dont agree with...

perkalerk215 wrote:we are the most intelligent creatures on the earth.

but its true isnt it? like the most sophisticated?...m not saying I am the most intelligent thing on this earth. but human beings as a whole are. we can talk and think for ourselves and think....what else is better than human beings?

efa · Post by **efa** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:45 pm

Exactly and to avoid taking this thread toooo far off topic (the reason for posting here is that I eat an 80% veggie diet and loveit) we certainly don't behave that way, seriously watch the doc Parson posted, its about more than just animals as food!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3661048967

We cant even look after vegetables FFS!!!!!

what else is better than human beings?

Dolphins!!!

I got Veggie Sausage tonight with wedges baked in this...

EFA all the way!

*grand* · Post by ***grand*** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:54 pm

perka made me sad

... the choices i make aye.

vegetarians...

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