UK Creationist Theme Park

RubiconMan · Post by **RubiconMan** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:27 pm

pk- wrote:the best documentary i've ever seen about jesus is this one:

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... &plindex=0

well worth the half hour or whatever it is

big up for that link.

pk- · Post by **pk-** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:59 pm

it's good isn't it

the stuff about him being the dalai lama is heavy

auan · Post by **auan** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:25 pm

jim wrote:In my church one of the "pillars of the community" was a millionaire lawyer who made his fortune from his clients who were Glasgow gangsters who he got off with murders and other unsavoury things. Seemed a bit off.

Are you the guy from Uddingston? Because I think I served that guy his Christmas booze order the other day. Had no idea who he was until the boss told me.

contakt · Post by **contakt** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:33 pm

Creationism is pretty nuts. I mean, really quite frightening.

Fine - believe in God and Eden.

Fine - believe in scientific theory and empirical evidence.

But don't try and jam the two together. This undermines the basic ideals of both systems and therefore leaves you with nothing worth believing in.

I mean, that theme park in the US has dinosaurs in the Eden bit. WTF??

auan · Post by **auan** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:40 pm

Contakt wrote:I mean, that theme park in the US has dinosaurs in the Eden bit. WTF??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R370YkYhV0w

Look out for the best youtube comment ever btw:

XF1n3stX (5 days ago)

no wonder this cigarette died of cancer

jim · Post by **jim** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:45 pm

Auan wrote:
jim wrote:In my church one of the "pillars of the community" was a millionaire lawyer who made his fortune from his clients who were Glasgow gangsters who he got off with murders and other unsavoury things. Seemed a bit off.
Are you the guy from Uddingston? Because I think I served that guy his Christmas booze order the other day. Had no idea who he was until the boss told me.

Bothwell, but close enough. Most likely the same guy.

contakt · Post by **contakt** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:46 pm

Ha ha, I had forgotten about that bit. The man was on it.

That comment as well...dear oh dear.

pk- · Post by **pk-** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:53 pm

Fine - believe in God and Eden.

Fine - believe in scientific theory and empirical evidence.

But don't try and jam the two together. This undermines the basic ideals of both systems and therefore leaves you with nothing worth believing in.

I dunno, i'd have thought that something so mind bogglingly amazing as the science of the world around us would affirm your belief in god the more you learn about it.

contakt · Post by **contakt** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:19 pm

pk- wrote:
Fine - believe in God and Eden.

Fine - believe in scientific theory and empirical evidence.

But don't try and jam the two together. This undermines the basic ideals of both systems and therefore leaves you with nothing worth believing in.
I dunno, i'd have thought that something so mind bogglingly amazing as the science of the world around us would affirm your belief in god the more you learn about it.

The Watchmaker argument?

Link for those that haven't come across this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmaker_analogy

Speaking as someone that has believed in the past, I know what you mean.

However, I still think that it is a tremendous leap to make.

I was also really only having a dig at those that attempt to impose the findings of science on Christianity.

I think there is room for both religion and science as they both serve different functions (in an ideal world):

Religion: tells us about the human heart and how we should try to live better lives - it speaks in a language of abstracts and metaphors which are open to interpretation.

Science: tells us about the physical environment we inhabit - it speaks in a language of fact and figure which is not open to interpretation in the same way.

The problem arises when people try to interpret the language of religion scientifically i.e. literally / factually.

metalboxproducts · Post by **metalboxproducts** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:25 pm

Contakt wrote: The problem arises when people try to interpret the language of religion scientifically i.e. literally / factually.

You should read this. I think you'd like it. I've been harping on to Pete(shonkissimo) about this for a while now.

http://www.kenanmalik.com/top/books.html

contakt · Post by **contakt** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:28 pm

'Man, Beast and Zombie'?

That looks interesting - I'll definitely check it out...cheers!

shonky · Post by **shonky** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:53 am

pk- wrote:
Fine - believe in God and Eden.

Fine - believe in scientific theory and empirical evidence.

But don't try and jam the two together. This undermines the basic ideals of both systems and therefore leaves you with nothing worth believing in.
I dunno, i'd have thought that something so mind bogglingly amazing as the science of the world around us would affirm your belief in god the more you learn about it.

How so? Certainly doesn't for me. Science gives a rationale for the world, given the amount of species that have died out due to inablilty to adjust to their changing environment, it's hardly like you can argue perfection in design. Seems like you've come up with the explanation for a middle manager god.

thump rat · Post by **thump rat** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:16 am

I think this is a bad thing, nothing better than sitting next a Christian on nemesis and they start praying, adds to the tension/hilarity.

auan · Post by **auan** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:26 am

Science can't explain the origin of life the way that religion can. Something which Darwin himself pointed out but but the fundamentalists and the Dawkinsists forget. The ideas of evolution and a creator God aren't incompatible. Even if we trace the evolution of all species back to one breed of single-cell organism, it doesn't explain how that organism was given life. I can totally see how it could be argued God had a hand in that.

And from there, I can totally see how it could be argued that God had evolution all planned out from the start. Why the militant Christains don't go on this attack, and not the fairy tale one of God making everything we know (except dinosaurs

) in seven 24 hour days, I will never know.

metalboxproducts · Post by **metalboxproducts** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:18 am

Contakt wrote:'Man, Beast and Zombie'?

That looks interesting - I'll definitely check it out...cheers!

Not sure if this camr up when yyou opened the page as it seems to be missing when i clicked the link. So

In the book, I question the ways in which we understand what it means to be human, both scientifically and culturally. Recent advances in evolutionary biology, neuroscience, genetics and AI seem to make possible the understanding of humans as simply animals or machines. I argue that this is an illusion fostered by a culture that is deeply pessimistic in its view of human beings. A century's worth of bloodshed and barbarism has created disillusionment with human capacities and opened the way for a science that views humans as beasts or zombies.

Man, Beast and Zombie is in part an exploration of scientific arguments about human nature, and in particular of evolutionary psychology and cognitive science. In part it is a study of cultural history, of the impact of intellectual and cultural changes on scientific conceptions of the human. And, in part, it is an attempt to understand the philosophical framework within which the contemporary science of Man works.

metalboxproducts · Post by **metalboxproducts** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:24 am

Auan wrote:Science can't explain the origin of life the way that religion can. Something which Darwin himself pointed out but but the fundamentalists and the Dawkinsists forget. The ideas of evolution and a creator God aren't incompatible. Even if we trace the evolution of all species back to one breed of single-cell organism, it doesn't explain how that organism was given life. I can totally see how it could be argued God had a hand in that.

And from there, I can totally see how it could be argued that God had evolution all planned out from the start. Why the militant Christains don't go on this attack, and not the fairy tale one of God making everything we know (except dinosaurs ) in seven 24 hour days, I will never know.

The Darwinism that you speak of has been sursueded quite a bit in the last 100 years. Before single cell organisms there was carbon, water and other minarals. All of these combined by chance to make life in this planet possable.

auan · Post by **auan** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:24 pm

metalboxproducts wrote:The Darwinism that you speak of has been sursueded quite a bit in the last 100 years. Before single cell organisms there was carbon, water and other minarals. All of these combined by chance to make life in this planet possable.

"By chance"?? That's really the best science can do? Religion can do better. Religious explanation may not be rational but it sure is a hell of a lot more interesting than "by chance". And still, what scientist can empirically prove that the carbon, water and minerals weren't mixed on purpose by God?

Mr Hyde wrote:P'raps because once you start picking and choosing what parts of the Bible are true you might as well just not believe any of it at all,

Of course people pick and choose from the bible, Christians included. All the 'bad stuff' in the bible gets swept aside all the time - the contradictions between the four gospels, the stuff that modern society deems morally incorrect (and rightfully so) but was widespread at the time, like owning slaves, sleeping with your daughter, war, eating pork...

I don't think there's a single mainstream branch of Christianity that follows the bible to the letter. And there lies one of my major problems with Christianity; that the bible is so massive and so rambling that you can pick and choose verses to justify anything. Look at the weirdo cults out in the American desert like the one on Channel 4 the other night, who do encourage tsecni and the like, and the feds don't touch them because they say what they're doing is justified in the bible and the USA has that whole freedom of religion crap.

rational thought has no place in organised religion.....just need blind faith and a healthy dose of fear....Religion: "A disease born of fear and a source of untold suffering to the human race"

Blah blah Bertrand Russell. Gets wheeled out all the time. You might as well be quoting the bible at me. Zen Buddhists, by the way, are members of an organized religion and in my experience some of the most rational people you will ever meet.

contakt · Post by **contakt** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:36 pm

Personally, I don't have a problem with religion or the idea of a God. The universe is a pretty strange place. It could be possible - and scientific findings could well be revealing the nuts and bolts of some grand design.

However, it is so far removed from the reality we experience that we may as well not think about it. It becomes irrelevant.

I do have a problem with the idea of a 'one, true God', as this is blatantly human tribalism at work. Surely, an infinitely merciful God would not discriminate against the millions of souls who were unfortunate enough to be born in the wrong place and time in history?

Isn't it more helpful to think about world religions in terms of cultural interpretations of the same thing? Shouldn't faith be personal?

The problem isn't religion, it's people.

metalboxproducts · Post by **metalboxproducts** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:58 pm

Auan wrote:
Blah blah Bertrand Russell. Gets wheeled out all the time. You might as well be quoting the bible at me.

Almost clichied (is thaat how you spell it? Cant be arsed checking right now) isn't it.

UK Creationist Theme Park

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