Hats!

whineo · Post by **whineo** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:00 pm

manray wrote:Man no offence to you but i really hate these sorts of threads. There is no formula to dubstep. If you want to try and find one then I'm sure your tunes will start to sound like everyone elses.

I think these types of threads are exactly what production forums are for.

manray · Post by **manray** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:41 pm

Whineo wrote:
manray wrote:Man no offence to you but i really hate these sorts of threads. There is no formula to dubstep. If you want to try and find one then I'm sure your tunes will start to sound like everyone elses.
I think these types of threads are exactly what production forums are for.

Yeah alot of this thread is really helpful. I was just referring mainly to the "common pattern" bit of the question. As long as we dont start talking about how to make "dubstep beat 1. and dubstep beat 2.) then its all good!

corpsey · Post by **corpsey** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:39 pm

I usually do the basic drums (i.e. a 32/64 loop) before I get into doing the tune proper, and the hats go in early. I don't really think about it as much as maybe I should, I just use them to create more sense of motion and rhythm in the loop.

misk · Post by **misk** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:26 pm

whining about originality is about as original these days as wobble.

hugh · Post by **hugh** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:22 pm

fliPPo wrote:shit hats will ruin a tune

shit anything will ruin a tune

manray · Post by **manray** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:34 pm

Misk wrote:whining about originality is about as original these days as wobble.

same thing really.

nospin · Post by **nospin** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:37 pm

manray wrote:
Misk wrote:whining about originality is about as original these days as wobble.
same thing really.

whining about whining is about as whiney as ...

misk · Post by **misk** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:43 pm

NoSpin wrote:
manray wrote:
Misk wrote:whining about originality is about as original these days as wobble.
same thing really.
whining about whining is about as whiney as ...

whining?

shonky · Post by **shonky** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:25 pm

I try and programme all my drums in a similar fashion - different riddims naturally but similar process. All about the question and answer, call and response business laying down the kick and the snare, and you should think in a similar way regarding the open and closed hats to work on interesting counter-rhythms.

If you're doing a fairly syncopated rhythm with the drums, sometimes a simple straight sixteenths or eighths can be quite handy to anchor the track if the other drums are too wayward, and if you're using a fairly straightforward drum pattern, it makes sense to use the hats to lift the tune and give it some swing. Although in theory a lot of house hats are fairly standard, it's worth listening to the tiny subtleties that can make a house tune groove or feel leaden, and then listen to the way hats are used in old 2 step as a progression on that.

Best advice I can give is listen to drummers and see what a good drummer is doing with the hats to add to the groove. Oh and dance more and that'll give you a real good idea of what the hats do - we are making dance music aren't we

osk · Post by **osk** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:00 am

If you're having trouble getting a groove going with the hats, try this:

Loop your sequencer so only 4 bars are playing over and over (or 2 - whatever). Then, whether in audio or in MIDI, start arranging some hats you like in real time. Lay down a basic sequence and start nudging them this way and that. I find working in real time like that with percussion helps and becomes much more intuitive.

djshiva · Post by **djshiva** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:39 am

NoSpin wrote:
sapphic_beats wrote:i cannot get away from 909 hats. i love them.

you use samples of them?

yep. my ass ain't paying a grand for a 909.

although i do have some samples direct from various drum machines that my friends have.

auan · Post by **auan** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:04 pm

sapphic_beats wrote:
NoSpin wrote:
sapphic_beats wrote:i cannot get away from 909 hats. i love them.

you use samples of them?
yep. my ass ain't paying a grand for a 909. although i do have some samples direct from various drum machines that my friends have.

You've probably already tried it, but I used to like d16 Drumazon for 909 sounds.

http://www.d16.pl/index.php?menu=14

serox · Post by **serox** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:06 pm

sapphic_beats wrote:
yep. my ass ain't paying a grand for a 909. although i do have some samples direct from various drum machines that my friends have.

or you could just buy a Roland mc505. That has a 303, 505 and 909 kit + loads more.

The 909 kit is the best drum kit going imo.

corpsey · Post by **corpsey** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:21 pm

Osk wrote:If you're having trouble getting a groove going with the hats, try this:

Loop your sequencer so only 4 bars are playing over and over (or 2 - whatever). Then, whether in audio or in MIDI, start arranging some hats you like in real time. Lay down a basic sequence and start nudging them this way and that. I find working in real time like that with percussion helps and becomes much more intuitive.

I always program drums as they play, I'm surprised if people don't to be honest

psyphon · Post by **psyphon** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:24 pm

decklyn wrote: How do you pick the different hats that you use?

I generally, get my arrangement/groove with a basic hat, then try all different samples until I get one that sounds right with the rest of my break.

I spend aaaaages on my breaks. Probably to long!

Sharmaji · Post by **Sharmaji** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:22 pm

one thing i hear a bunch-- a real hihat can make ONE sound at a time. which means that you need to have your samples cut each other off to make it realistic (if realistic is what you're going for). if you've got an open hat that keeps ringing after a closed hat sound comes in-- not workin for me.

also. real hihats put out a TON of 200hz and environs. old K zildjian hats and the like, from the 50s and 60s, were extremely dark, thick, and throaty both in sound and texture. something to consider, textually and etc. deep house heads have been working with big-sounding hats in a groove context for ages; i'd like to hear that more in dubstep.

mudfoot))) · Post by **mudfoot)))** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:39 pm

I don't think this is such a bad thread. Personally I like 808/909 hats sometimes, other times I used hats from breaks, or from a drum kit preset, etc. I have a CD called "Dance Mega Drums" that has tons of old drum machines, but most of the old ones sound very artificial. I try to play around with different sounds for different songs, and sometimes I use latin percussion (shakers, etc.) instead of hats. But mostly I keep going back to the 808/909 hats because they're so tight and easy to work into a mix without them being too prominent.

As far as what you do with the sounds, think about how real hi hats behave. I have a set of 15" ziljidans on my drum kit that can create a wide range of sounds depending on how you hit them and how hard you step on the pedal, you can get everything from a tight 'chk' to a big sizzle. It's good to keep that in mind with sequenced hats, real ones have a ton of variation. One way to get this is by adding some randomization to the velocity of the notes, or using a long filter sweep. Sometimes I put echo on the hats to get more 'ghost notes' going. Sometimes I grab a piece of another track and use that as the sequence for hats. I noticed Skream did this on one track, the bassline and the hi-hats have exactly the same rhythm. Just some ideas that work for me.

wallace · Post by **wallace** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:58 pm

I pretty much start with a kick, and somtimes snare.
Adding, taking out hats till i get the drums right.
If the hats are off, it will mess the drums up for sure.
Also like to stay away from to much of the same hat progression in series.
As it tends to take away alot of the effect the hats create in the first place.

I've just been adjusting the pitch, to get differnt hat sounds.
Totally need new hats ATM
Gonna check those 909's out, see if they live up to all the hype. lol

Also its nice to get an outside perspective. Easy for me to go drum def, thinking something sounds cool. When in fact it doesn't.

kato! · Post by **kato!** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:46 pm

If your programming drums from scratch, it's usually a good idea to have a break in mind, so you know right away what you want your kik snare and hats to do. For me personally getting the drums sounding great from the start is key, as we are discussing hats here, I'll start with them.

Listen to records or drum tracks that you like, listen to what the hats are doing, have your sequencer opened at the same time and jam along with the break, it takes a little practise but it's worth it. As for hihat sounds you can synthesis your own or find single hit samples, I would advise you try and find these from proper sample cds, to make sure they are of high quality.

As for processing it's quite good to add to some subtle delay or even a dub delay! Eq as always is essential to change the tonal characteristics, where you want want more of the bell around 5 - 6k of the hat or if you want to add some sparkle 10k +
Use can also use compression on hats, usually if you want then them to sound more percussive and bring the attack out.

www.myspace.com/katomyspace

grime suspect · Post by **grime suspect** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:10 pm

i think ur doing alright as it is likin ur style big up.

Hats!

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