Cheerio Mr. Mugabe

Off Topic (Everything besides dubstep)
Forum rules
Please read and follow this sub-forum's specific rules listed HERE, as well as our sitewide rules listed HERE.

Link to the Secret Ninja Sessions community ustream channel - info in this thread
User avatar
badger
Posts: 13776
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:24 pm
Location: Bristol

Post by badger » Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:04 am

kins83 wrote:With regards to your previous post, it's a great shame, but that really does seem to be the case (with leaders and opposition being as bad as each other). But surely there must come a point when enough people are tired of the shit that they've been through, and and so eventually some good must come out of the situation? Maybe I'm being an optimist and not much of a realist, but there has to come a time for revolution?

Right. Lunch time.
you'd have thought so but that never seems to be the case in africa. i really don't understand why though. maybe it's the way their tribal communities have evolved over time but the whole mindset seems so very different over there. much like iraq tbh. in the west we seem able to get over past grievances and move on but in africa it just seems to escalate into vengeance.

this is in no way a racist comment btw and i'm not going to start call them "savages" or anything like that because they clearly aren't. certain cultures just have very different ways of doing things because that's what has worked for them in the past. and a lot of the time different cultures don't seem very compatible - just look at attempts to bring democracy to places like iraq and afghanistan. without a complete shift in collective cultural identity it just doesn't seem to work

User avatar
kidlogic
Posts: 6313
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:07 pm
Location: Portlandia
Contact:

Post by kidlogic » Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:11 am

badger wrote:
kins83 wrote:
kidlogic wrote:I believe a 'run off' is a sort of tie breaking election.
So they'd re-do the whole vote, but just with the two tied candidates?
yeah i think that's what it is. i really can't see the point of it though, other than to give mugabe more chance of clinging on, which he clearly doesn't have anyway. or gives him more chance to prepare some kind of retribution or attempt to stay in power
I think its when there are more than two candidates and the two leaders are so close that its necessary to determine the true winner. I think.

But yeah, from what I understand in this situation, it does seem that its just going to give him more time to figure out a way to stay in power. I dont know much about the particular situation, but it does seem like if the opponent wins he's gonna have a hard time cleaning up the country. That is if he's not as corrupt as his predecessor.

User avatar
kidlogic
Posts: 6313
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:07 pm
Location: Portlandia
Contact:

Post by kidlogic » Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:14 am

badger wrote:
kins83 wrote:With regards to your previous post, it's a great shame, but that really does seem to be the case (with leaders and opposition being as bad as each other). But surely there must come a point when enough people are tired of the shit that they've been through, and and so eventually some good must come out of the situation? Maybe I'm being an optimist and not much of a realist, but there has to come a time for revolution?

Right. Lunch time.
you'd have thought so but that never seems to be the case in africa. i really don't understand why though. maybe it's the way their tribal communities have evolved over time but the whole mindset seems so very different over there. much like iraq tbh. in the west we seem able to get over past grievances and move on but in africa it just seems to escalate into vengeance.

this is in no way a racist comment btw and i'm not going to start call them "savages" or anything like that because they clearly aren't. certain cultures just have very different ways of doing things because that's what has worked for them in the past. and a lot of the time different cultures don't seem very compatible - just look at attempts to bring democracy to places like iraq and afghanistan. without a complete shift in collective cultural identity it just doesn't seem to work
Well put. Iraq is a complete disaster. Its going to take forever to change things there, even though it does seem that a large portion of the general population would like it. Seems like it is the same in Zimbabwae, even if the poplulace wants change, the people in power are just going to continue to manipulate them for their own gains.

User avatar
badger
Posts: 13776
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:24 pm
Location: Bristol

Post by badger » Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:23 am

this might be a very wild accusation but i reckon most of the problems in the world are directly our fault (that is our past governments)

the world has run istelf just fine for centuries until we stuck our dirty little beaks in. yeah africa may not have been "civilised" by western standards but they were happy enough and ran things their own way that works for them. then us westerners come over and impose our values and ways of doing things and the rot starts setting in. our way of doing things has gradually evolved over hundreds of years to get to a place where it actually works, and yet we expect we can come in and impose it on a society with wildly different cultural values. then after a while we fuck off and let them try to sort themselves out, after of course giving them not only new ideas but the weaponry and means by which to achieve them

thank god for imperialism :roll:

and i'm not saying that africa was all a land of cuddly bunnies and lovely roses before we came along because it wasn't. african tribes were just as involved in selling their brothers to the west as we were, if not more so. and this wasn't just cashing in and being oppurtunist because the slave trade existed long before we got involved

User avatar
kidlogic
Posts: 6313
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:07 pm
Location: Portlandia
Contact:

Post by kidlogic » Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:32 am

^^ Im inclined to agree. Between the UK/Spain/France in the past and the UK/US in the present I would say you are correct.

Its interesting to think how some of the countries 'helped' along by imperialism would have turned out without intervention. Sure, they would have had their own stumbles and mistakes, but take out the part of the equasion that you mentioned Badger, ie the guns and governmental influence, and Africa, India and the Middle East would be drastically different places.

kins83
Posts: 5979
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:31 pm
Location: Leeds

Post by kins83 » Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:45 am

Yeah it's definitely a tricky one to discuss.

But I'd agree with what you two are saying. A culture/society will have different beliefs and ways of doing things that are ingrained into them. Over time places like Africa and others would sort themselves out using different solutions to those brought by our 'help'.

But then I do believe that if done properly, unified kindoms/regions/tribes/whatever, that are ruled with 'the greater good' in mind can be much more productive and generally better for the whole country than a load of separate groups, each with their own motives.
Magma wrote: SNH is a genuinely necessary part of making sure I don't murder everyone in the building whilst muttering Flow Dan lyrics.
badger wrote:The panda's problem isn't man. The panda's problem is that it's utterly shit

kins83
Posts: 5979
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:31 pm
Location: Leeds

Post by kins83 » Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:36 pm

Two pages! :D
Magma wrote: SNH is a genuinely necessary part of making sure I don't murder everyone in the building whilst muttering Flow Dan lyrics.
badger wrote:The panda's problem isn't man. The panda's problem is that it's utterly shit

User avatar
badger
Posts: 13776
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:24 pm
Location: Bristol

Post by badger » Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:38 pm

heh yeah 2 pages with only 3 posters. surely someone else has an opinion on this?

SMH

kins83
Posts: 5979
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:31 pm
Location: Leeds

Post by kins83 » Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:45 pm

badger wrote:surely someone else has an opinion on this?

SMH
It's not looking like it! Maybe we need more ham/lol cats/ amykamalamalamalallama
Magma wrote: SNH is a genuinely necessary part of making sure I don't murder everyone in the building whilst muttering Flow Dan lyrics.
badger wrote:The panda's problem isn't man. The panda's problem is that it's utterly shit


BaronVon
Posts: 4382
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:05 pm
Location: Yanbu

Post by BaronVon » Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:52 pm

Ive not really got a strong opinion on this as i don't know an awful lot about African politics. Im glad Mugabe is finally gonna get the boot but what will happen to him. No doubt will never answer for his crimes and will end up living like a King in another country.
Whats to say this new guy is any better??

Heard Desmond Tutu speaking and he was saying that when Mugabe first came to power he was a Revolutionary Marxist who did alot to free Zimbabwe from it's rulers. The money and power obviously went to his head.
tr0tsky wrote: InI man nuh go to nah rasclot independent ethnic butchers seen.
Selassie-I man shop in Morrisons.

kins83
Posts: 5979
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:31 pm
Location: Leeds

Post by kins83 » Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:00 pm

To be honest mate, I didn't really know all the intricacies of the situation either, just wanted to see if i could get some sort of reasonable debate going...

:oops:
Magma wrote: SNH is a genuinely necessary part of making sure I don't murder everyone in the building whilst muttering Flow Dan lyrics.
badger wrote:The panda's problem isn't man. The panda's problem is that it's utterly shit

User avatar
badger
Posts: 13776
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:24 pm
Location: Bristol

Post by badger » Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:07 pm

lol i don't really know that much about the specifics zimbabwe either but i see the same things happening far too often all over post-colonial africa so i thought i'd have a rant

User avatar
ike
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:07 pm
Location: midlands innit

Post by ike » Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:10 pm

i lived in zimbabwe when i was younger..

beautiful place, even when we could see it was going bad it was one of the richest, most modern countries in africa, with the highest percentage of Uni degree holders in the continent etc etc.

mugabe and his administration were (in the eyes of most people) the ONLY thing keeping zim from being beautiful and prosperous. and now he's gone, i think a lot of hate will dissapate, and people will think about the future, or how nice it was in the past, and try to bring that back

hopefully.
"off on a natural charge, bon voyage"

BaronVon
Posts: 4382
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:05 pm
Location: Yanbu

Post by BaronVon » Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:11 pm

kins83 wrote:To be honest mate, I didn't really know all the intricacies of the situation either, just wanted to see if i could get some sort of reasonable debate going...

:oops:
It's a very heavy issue and hard to debate. Mainly because African politics are so volatile and corrupt. I Hope this guy is an honest man who truly cares about the countries future. Maybe then something will change. It is possible places like Ghana have a very stable economy with low crime and unemployment. Zimbabwe certainly has the fertile land to make the country a success. It's just a shame that the people who knew how to farm it have been killed or evicted.
Lets just hope they don't find Oil, if that occurs we will see a situation like Sudan where foreign Oil companies (China) employ millitia to force people from the land, with no profits going to any of the people. The Chinese have got their hands all over Africa at the moment just like Europe did in the past.
Zimbabwe need someone like Evo Morales (Bolivian leader) to stand up and say no to the outside world. Keep the potential profits and resources as internal wealth for the people.
tr0tsky wrote: InI man nuh go to nah rasclot independent ethnic butchers seen.
Selassie-I man shop in Morrisons.

phaelon
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:15 pm
Location: NEPA

Post by phaelon » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:19 pm

Run Off voting works in that you dont vote for just one person (so there is no such thing as a wasted vote). Instead, you rank all candidates in order from favorite to least favorite. In a case where no candidate recieves more than 50% of the vote, the run off is used. They take the losers votes and redistribute them.

Here's a visual tutorial if you want to understand it more:

http://www.chrisgates.net/irv/

djelements
Posts: 6830
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:25 pm
Location: First dsf male lesbian/Savannah, GA

Post by djelements » Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:23 pm

Phaelon wrote:Run Off voting works in that you dont vote for just one person (so there is no such thing as a wasted vote). Instead, you rank all candidates in order from favorite to least favorite. In a case where no candidate recieves more than 50% of the vote, the run off is used. They take the losers votes and redistribute them.

Here's a visual tutorial if you want to understand it more:

http://www.chrisgates.net/irv/
Sounds like Mugabe may return to fuck everything up then.
http://soundcloud.com/helixdelay
kejk wrote:I prefer the pooper

Littlefoot
Posts: 3478
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:45 pm
Location: Nottingham
Contact:

Post by Littlefoot » Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:46 pm

Subsequent Mastering - http://www.subsequentmastering.com
Online Mastering Service
(LOL GURLZ, Geiom, Dexplicit, Bass Clef, Lost Codes Audio, Car Crash Set recordings)

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests