Recording vinyls to computer

daft cunt · Post by **daft cunt** » Thu May 01, 2008 10:45 am

I can't get my recordings any louder than -14/15 dB without clipping.
And when I play the digital version with the Serato I have to set the gain pretty high. Much higher than when using the original record.
So would you say -15 dB is acceptable or should I let the few peaks clip to make it louder?

Also do you think the Concorde Pro S cartridges could be the reason why it's so quiet, because they're the only things that suck in my setup?

kidlogic · Post by **kidlogic** » Thu May 01, 2008 11:02 am

Dont let them peak...

Its partially Serato's fault... its really quiet on my mixer too. I have to turn the gains up from about 10 o'clock for vinyl to about 2 o'clock for Serato no matter the file, if its downloaded or ripped. Its a bit of a pain, but better than clipping.

On the topic of volume and Serato, dont be afraid of the gain knobs for each deck or the 'Auto-Volume' (or whatever its called) feature. Turn those gains up a bit as well, just make sure to keep that one out of the red for sure, when it clips there its digital sounding and eats the bass. If you use the 'Auto-Volume' adjust thing, do some test runs to see what setting you should have it at so it doesnt clip.

The carts def have a bit to do with it as well. They're not the loudest ones out there, thats for sure. I use the Shure M-447's - Serato recomended, they have the second or third highest output of any carts and they're killer for scratching, not to mention some of the cheapest replacements of any high end needle. If you do step your carts up, I wouldn't go for any of the 'digital' needles. They're maximized for timecode/control signal but not for actual vinyl. There is also a new 'archive' series by Ortofon (I think) that Ive heard nothing but good things about.

Feel free to hit me up with questions about Serato, Ive had it for a few years now.

Did you upgrade to 1.8? Get it for free from their forum - www.scratchlive.net - loads of good info and tips on there as well.

dj $hy · Post by **dj $hy** » Thu May 01, 2008 11:58 am

Kid,

You say you've had Serato a while.. Can I ask. With the update they just did I swear I've read that its packing effects, that the case cos I'm scared to update it. If its not broken I dont wanna fix it you know..

daft cunt · Post by **daft cunt** » Thu May 01, 2008 12:09 pm

kidlogic wrote:Dont let them peak...

Its partially Serato's fault... its really quiet on my mixer too. I have to turn the gains up from about 10 o'clock for vinyl to about 2 o'clock for Serato no matter the file, if its downloaded or ripped. Its a bit of a pain, but better than clipping.

On the topic of volume and Serato, dont be afraid of the gain knobs for each deck or the 'Auto-Volume' (or whatever its called) feature. Turn those gains up a bit as well, just make sure to keep that one out of the red for sure, when it clips there its digital sounding and eats the bass. If you use the 'Auto-Volume' adjust thing, do some test runs to see what setting you should have it at so it doesnt clip.

The carts def have a bit to do with it as well. They're not the loudest ones out there, thats for sure. I use the Shure M-447's - Serato recomended, they have the second or third highest output of any carts and they're killer for scratching, not to mention some of the cheapest replacements of any high end needle. If you do step your carts up, I wouldn't go for any of the 'digital' needles. They're maximized for timecode/control signal but not for actual vinyl. There is also a new 'archive' series by Ortofon (I think) that Ive heard nothing but good things about.

Feel free to hit me up with questions about Serato, Ive had it for a few years now.

Did you upgrade to 1.8? Get it for free from their forum - www.scratchlive.net - loads of good info and tips on there as well.

Thanks mate. Quality posts anytime

Yes the software is up to date.
Never tried the auto gain yet, will do.

Not sure about replacing the cartridges yet as I've just changed the needles but the next ones should be the Concorde DJs.

daft cunt · Post by **daft cunt** » Thu May 01, 2008 12:24 pm

Yes I also have a question about the Serato, why the hell doesn't it reads 96 khz wave files and why did I wait the 10th rip to check it?!

kidlogic · Post by **kidlogic** » Thu May 01, 2008 12:59 pm

DJ $hy wrote:Kid,

You say you've had Serato a while.. Can I ask. With the update they just did I swear I've read that its packing effects, that the case cos I'm scared to update it. If its not broken I dont wanna fix it you know..

1.8? Its got some effects kinda... not anything like Reverb or Phaser or anything, (unless you have the TTM-57 which has effects built into it and 1.8 has new ones). It now has Keylock, Midi support (which is awsome), Autolooping, Some dope relative mode cue type stuff (drop to cue, needle dropping to location) and a lot more... theres a whole list of the new features at - http://www.scratchlive.net/downloads/

The main improvement (in my opinion) with 1.8 is the improved sound quality. Keylock and scratching sound amazing, and the quality as a whole is way better.

I would say unless you are on Vista do the update. There are known issues with Vista atm...

DC - weird... I thought it would do the 96khz .wavs too... it may be a setting you need to change (check the setup screen), or it may be stuck at 48k for the time being... files that big will add up quick though, trust me

I currently have 60+ gigs 320's! If you have the room, do .wavs, but 320s sound pretty good on large systems

Sharmaji · Post by **Sharmaji** » Fri May 02, 2008 3:57 am

i think it's stuck at 48khz right now.

in terms of volume level, vinyl is generally pressed with a wider dynamic range, but the general top of the spectrum is +4dbFS. digital media tops out at, of course, 0dbFS so instantly, you're losing 4db of volume if you've got everything set flat and compensate to not digitally clip.

use your gains.

alternatively, record your vinyl in and limit it a bit to get back your volume. try and see if you like this- i generally dont, but for some records that are pretty old (like mid-90s), the increase in RMS volume is really great.

daft cunt · Post by **daft cunt** » Sun May 04, 2008 2:04 pm

Limiting is a pretty good idea. Better do that than having few peaks clipping while mixing.

Weird stuff happened with my recordings. For all tunes the right channel is a bit louder than the left. I changed the needles recently, what can be causing this?

djshiva · Post by **djshiva** » Sun May 04, 2008 6:22 pm

Daft tnuc wrote:I can't get my recordings any louder than -14/15 dB without clipping.
And when I play the digital version with the Serato I have to set the gain pretty high. Much higher than when using the original record.
So would you say -15 dB is acceptable or should I let the few peaks clip to make it louder?

Also do you think the Concorde Pro S cartridges could be the reason why it's so quiet, because they're the only things that suck in my setup?

are you recording through a mixer or just into the inputs on your soundcard?

daft cunt · Post by **daft cunt** » Sun May 04, 2008 6:37 pm

Mixer.
After reading about it somewhere else I tried to plug directly to the sound card but phono out to line in doesn't sound too good

djshiva · Post by **djshiva** » Sun May 04, 2008 6:48 pm

do you have a friend with other needles so you can test that theory? if you are having problems, start changing one thing at a time (starting with the needles) to see what fixes the issue.

deadly_habit · Post by **deadly_habit** » Mon May 05, 2008 5:14 am

Daft tnuc wrote:Mixer.
After reading about it somewhere else I tried to plug directly to the sound card but phono out to line in doesn't sound too good

do you have a phono preamp in that chain for straight thru if your deck(s) don't have a digi out?
best bet is to record straight thru minus the mixer and then with your resulting wav file keep your input level below clipping and normalize it in wavelab or whatever your editor is afterwards

parameter · Post by **parameter** » Mon May 05, 2008 7:52 am

don't forget

when sampling from vinyl you are messing with analog vs digital domain. Like apples vs bananas. Digital is much louder. Personally, I record vinyl peaking at -6 dBFS, while 0dB on de analog mixer. But is still sounding quiet. In Europe somebody set a standard: -12dBFS = 0 dB VU, if I recall this right. Check the articles by Bob Katz (www.digido.com) about levelling for some more background info...

And besides, there can be a great difference in the cartridge used. Check the mV output when buying a cartridge/needle. I have two types, Stanton Trackmaster for loud music, like dubstep and Stanton 680EL for 'other' music and sampling. The difference is striking...

daft cunt · Post by **daft cunt** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:27 am

sapphic_beats wrote:do you have a friend with other needles so you can test that theory? if you are having problems, start changing one thing at a time (starting with the needles) to see what fixes the issue.

Nevermind that. It's actually not doing it for all of them, just many of them.
Maybe I did sthg, I'll record again and see what I get.

do you have a phono preamp in that chain for straight thru if your deck(s) don't have a digi out?
best bet is to record straight thru minus the mixer and then with your resulting wav file keep your input level below clipping and normalize it in wavelab or whatever your editor is afterwards

No preamp so is it possible to record without going through the mixer?

Sharmaji · Post by **Sharmaji** » Mon May 05, 2008 2:09 pm

Daft tnuc wrote: No preamp so is it possible to record without going through the mixer?

no. you need an RIAA phono preamp. when vinyl is cut, the medium attenuates very specific frequencies. you need a phono preamp to specifically rebuild those--and get the level up to line level.

drwurst · Post by **drwurst** » Tue May 06, 2008 1:54 pm

not using serato here, but what about trying to record with another software?
and it would be best to leave the mixer aside, thats true.
as long as you are in 24bit (!) the volume difference isnt bad for the sound,
but i can understand its annoying turning the gains up all the time...

Recording vinyls to computer

Recording vinyls to computer

Re: Recording vinyls to computer

Who is online