Tribe Sounds

xthewiddler · Post by **xthewiddler** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:50 am

I need help finding some samples of like tribal yells and ritual stuff

freesound doesnt seam to have anything in this area

anybody know anything?

thanks in advance

doomstep · Post by **doomstep** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:06 am

You might need to get off the internet for this

Everytime I go digging I find something, field recordings, french compliations of folk music from the 70s etc. etc.

But, please please please be respectfull!!!

ritual stuff

implies that it holds meaning for someone - somewhere, laying a religous (christian or otherwise) recording over some random club shit is NAGL.

I will only use stuff if there is a translation & its appropriate.

Sorry to go on dad-ish, but, I am naturally drawn to these sounds and have spent a great deal of time getting to grips with the ethical side of it - pick-pocketing other cultures is really not on, unless you do it ina respectfull way and provide info / explanations as part of the work.

On the other hand I spend ALOT of time listening / (over)anylizing Kuduro & African house and it has had a massive influence on my programming - in a great way!

Spend some time, get involved - at least on a theoretical level - and contribute rather than canabilze!

miss_molinari · Post by **miss_molinari** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:35 am

doomstep wrote:implies that it holds meaning for someone - somewhere, laying a religous (christian or otherwise) recording over some random club shit is NAGL.

I will only use stuff if there is a translation & its appropriate.

Sorry to go on dad-ish, but, I am naturally drawn to these sounds and have spent a great deal of time getting to grips with the ethical side of it - pick-pocketing other cultures is really not on, unless you do it ina respectfull way and provide info / explanations as part of the work.

you are free to do as you please, these aren't images of Muhhamed or anything...

that doesnt mean you shouldnt 'look into it', but there is no ethical problem here. they are just sounds, and their 'culture' has no copyright on them. like using a 303 for pop is some kind of moral issue because it might offend the old acid heads for whom it' holds meaning'...

you dont have to tip toe around other peoples cultures, they dont have to listen to your music.

no harm, no foul.

ali jamieson · Post by **ali jamieson** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:17 am

xTheWiddler wrote:I need help finding some samples of like tribal yells and ritual stuff

freesound doesnt seam to have anything in this area

anybody know anything?

thanks in advance

hunt charidy shops for new age CDs and world fusion stuff.

local libraries have really good world sections they're cheap to hire and u can jus dump 'em on yer iTunes

psyolopher · Post by **psyolopher** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:45 am

www.altavista.com

search:
Shaman...chanting....or something! =P

xthewiddler · Post by **xthewiddler** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:06 pm

doomstep wrote:You might need to get off the internet for this

Everytime I go digging I find something, field recordings, french compliations of folk music from the 70s etc. etc.

But, please please please be respectfull!!!

ritual stuff
implies that it holds meaning for someone - somewhere, laying a religous (christian or otherwise) recording over some random club shit is NAGL.

I will only use stuff if there is a translation & its appropriate.

Sorry to go on dad-ish, but, I am naturally drawn to these sounds and have spent a great deal of time getting to grips with the ethical side of it - pick-pocketing other cultures is really not on, unless you do it ina respectfull way and provide info / explanations as part of the work.

On the other hand I spend ALOT of time listening / (over)anylizing Kuduro & African house and it has had a massive influence on my programming - in a great way!

Spend some time, get involved - at least on a theoretical level - and contribute rather than canabilze!

wtf....

anyways thanks everyone else for some ideas of where to find sounds

this new tune im workin on is almost done, onc ei get these sounds

doomstep · Post by **doomstep** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:27 am

No, not wtf mate.

Respect.

the term 'ritual stuff' indicates to me that you have no respect for other cultures and are quite happy to pillage for your own gain, to fake 'deepness' you will steal from age old traditions with which you have no connection or rights to.

'ritual stuff'

says it all. I went easy on you. If you wanna be any westerner taking from other cultures because it is your god given right, then fine, go ahead, continue and perpetuate 100s of years of disgusting behaviour.

doomstep · Post by **doomstep** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:35 am

miss_molinari wrote:
doomstep wrote:implies that it holds meaning for someone - somewhere, laying a religous (christian or otherwise) recording over some random club shit is NAGL.

I will only use stuff if there is a translation & its appropriate.

Sorry to go on dad-ish, but, I am naturally drawn to these sounds and have spent a great deal of time getting to grips with the ethical side of it - pick-pocketing other cultures is really not on, unless you do it ina respectfull way and provide info / explanations as part of the work.
you are free to do as you please, these aren't images of Muhhamed or anything...

that doesnt mean you shouldnt 'look into it', but there is no ethical problem here. they are just sounds, and their 'culture' has no copyright on them. like using a 303 for pop is some kind of moral issue because it might offend the old acid heads for whom it' holds meaning'...

you dont have to tip toe around other peoples cultures, they dont have to listen to your music.

no harm, no foul.

a 303 is a synth, it was built so a guitarist could jam / practice without a bass player, the only people that could be offended are perhaps the orig designers who never ever imagined someone would twist the cutoff knob while the pattern was playing!

Are you comparing recordings of religous or spiritual signifigance with a synth made in a factory in Japan? Are you mad?

So because Third World or Ancient cultures do not understand or take part in the Western legal system, because they do not 'copyright' their cultral capital you are free to take what you want and not give anything back?

ok, fine. Do what you want.

xthewiddler · Post by **xthewiddler** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:54 am

doomstep wrote:If you wanna be any westerner taking from other cultures because it is your god given right, then fine, go ahead, continue and perpetuate 100s of years of disgusting behaviour.

it sounds like you have cultural issues not me

psyolopher · Post by **psyolopher** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:39 am

doomstep wrote:
miss_molinari wrote:
doomstep wrote:implies that it holds meaning for someone - somewhere, laying a religous (christian or otherwise) recording over some random club shit is NAGL.

I will only use stuff if there is a translation & its appropriate.

Sorry to go on dad-ish, but, I am naturally drawn to these sounds and have spent a great deal of time getting to grips with the ethical side of it - pick-pocketing other cultures is really not on, unless you do it ina respectfull way and provide info / explanations as part of the work.
you are free to do as you please, these aren't images of Muhhamed or anything...

that doesnt mean you shouldnt 'look into it', but there is no ethical problem here. they are just sounds, and their 'culture' has no copyright on them. like using a 303 for pop is some kind of moral issue because it might offend the old acid heads for whom it' holds meaning'...

you dont have to tip toe around other peoples cultures, they dont have to listen to your music.

no harm, no foul.
a 303 is a synth, it was built so a guitarist could jam / practice without a bass player, the only people that could be offended are perhaps the orig designers who never ever imagined someone would twist the cutoff knob while the pattern was playing!

Are you comparing recordings of religous or spiritual signifigance with a synth made in a factory in Japan? Are you mad?

So because Third World or Ancient cultures do not understand or take part in the Western legal system, because they do not 'copyright' their cultral capital you are free to take what you want and not give anything back?

ok, fine. Do what you want.

And then the 303 synth was picked up by Chicago house dudes, then this spread early to Goa, and this Goa and psytrance was born!
now alot of these 303 tweaked sounds are in thousands of electronic songs, known as ACID sounds and used in many basslines!

some say the sound itself is trippy and such, and trippy people talk alot about spiritual stuff....so all makes sense man! =P

But that last thing u wrote was kinda weird....Dont think he's stealing or making fun of! I know producers who uses ancient Shamanic chanting, becouse they believe it can enhance the Trance in Psytrance music!
They use alot sometimes to make things mysterious aswell, its not ripping off atleast!

But apart from that, sounds always abit more serious to me when i hear styles mixed with this....Not much making fun of those cultures!
(btw damn, whjy i am writing now? im fuckin piss drunk lol)

miss_molinari · Post by **miss_molinari** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:23 am

if they dont take part in our 'western legal system' then we have stolen nothing from them! its only dumbass intellectual property rights that make you think u owe them something....you dont. maybe if you went to their island and took the guy who sung the chant but the tribes dont 'own' the mp3.

you should take a leaf out of the book you are supposed to be studying and forget intellectual property rights. if the guy chants and you record it, thhat is your chant. you didnt make it up but that recording is yours and no part his.

piracy is not a crime

(why do you think that they spent the 90's telling us it was)

anyway, each to their own..

setspeed · Post by **setspeed** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:27 am

i reckon it's an interesting question - if you're just taking something because it sounds 'cool' and 'deep' without regard for what it actually is, then maybe that is disrespectful. would someone put the Our Father over a dubstep beat? it's a ritual chant after all - but probably not, because it would not be seen as 'cool'; everyone knows what it is. somebody else's prayer though, in a different language - probably fine. if it's just in there to add a bit of generic 'spirituality' then that could be seen as disrespectful i think, in the same way that i think it's disrespectful when people have all these random things in their houses - a ganesha next to a buddha etc etc etc

there is of course a whole debate to be had over whether you can make 'new' art through appropriating and recontextualising other stuff and whether this should affect what you do. perhaps the way to go would be to do it, but to make sure you find out exactly what you have sampled, and give it some sort of credit on the record?

hugh · Post by **hugh** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:40 am

who cares, people are overly protective about religion anyway. and i really really mean that, it's probably the biggest cause of the massive east/west division the world is experiencing now.
Religion is supposed to be about to be about bettering of yourself and others through the spreading of a message, so i don't see how incorporating it into song would be offensive.
anywhoo most of us who know our shit know religion is total bollocks anyway, and will probably start to die out in the next hundred years or so as even the poorest countries urbanise and industrialise.

daft cunt · Post by **daft cunt** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:43 am

doomstep wrote:the term 'ritual stuff' indicates to me that you have no respect for other cultures and are quite happy to pillage for your own gain, to fake 'deepness' you will steal from age old traditions with which you have no connection or rights to.

Is weed a big enough connection for you to tolerate that dubstep producers sample jamaican reggae/roots music?

masstronaut · Post by **masstronaut** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:04 pm

It's a big debate isn't it.

As someone that grew up with sampling and hip-hop my first instinct is to think that all that preciousness is nonsense and everything should be up for grabs. And that talking about respecting 'other cultures' itself reinforces the idea that there are these divisions.

But then in the real world there big differences between cultures and how they value things. And there are also wildly asymmetrical power relationships involved as well. So it is worth thinking about I'd say.

One question would be - if you want those types of sounds then why not record them yourself? Get a mic and some friends and make some noise. And if that's not good enough then maybe it's worth asking why? If it's an easy signifier of some nebulous idea of 'authentic' tribalism you seek then could that be the very thing that makes it problematic?

I'd say all cultures, all people have areas that they consider to be sacred, whether these are openly acknowledged or not.

setspeed · Post by **setspeed** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:10 pm

miss_molinari wrote:if they dont take part in our 'western legal system' then we have stolen nothing from them! its only dumbass intellectual property rights that make you think u owe them something....you dont. maybe if you went to their island and took the guy who sung the chant but the tribes dont 'own' the mp3.

you should take a leaf out of the book you are supposed to be studying and forget intellectual property rights. if the guy chants and you record it, thhat is your chant. you didnt make it up but that recording is yours and no part his.

piracy is not a crime

seems rather cold!

so if you were to sing a song, and someone was recording it, then by this logic you would have no problem if they put it on a record, made a profit from it, and claimed that it was their song, and 'in no part yours'?

this is taking the discussion on a bit of a tangent tho...

psyolopher · Post by **psyolopher** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:19 pm

setspeed wrote:i reckon it's an interesting question - if you're just taking something because it sounds 'cool' and 'deep' without regard for what it actually is, then maybe that is disrespectful. would someone put the Our Father over a dubstep beat? it's a ritual chant after all - but probably not, because it would not be seen as 'cool'; everyone knows what it is. somebody else's prayer though, in a different language - probably fine. if it's just in there to add a bit of generic 'spirituality' then that could be seen as disrespectful i think, in the same way that i think it's disrespectful when people have all these random things in their houses - a ganesha next to a buddha etc etc etc

there is of course a whole debate to be had over whether you can make 'new' art through appropriating and recontextualising other stuff and whether this should affect what you do. perhaps the way to go would be to do it, but to make sure you find out exactly what you have sampled, and give it some sort of credit on the record?

When i wrote my post, i was pretty smashed!
btw this thread is going way off.......

setspeed · Post by **setspeed** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:30 pm

yeah it is a bit!

so, back on topic for a second, i have no idea where to get samples like that from

John Locke · Post by **John Locke** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:49 pm

doomstep, yes: debated this at length elsewhere on here. a thread about "arabic dubstep"

miss molinari, no: yr arrogance is frequently irritating, in this case its downright offensive

carry on...

ali jamieson · Post by **ali jamieson** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:06 pm

doomstep wrote:...Are you comparing recordings of religous or spiritual signifigance with a synth made in a factory in Japan?...

you might as well, the roland TR/TB XOX line has pretty much become an institution

i agree with people flippantly sampling 'ritual bits' but if you're not religious [or willing to research it] it doesn't prohibit you from using it.
i mean in the advent of sampling, do you really think all those hip-hop producers analyzed the chord progressions and stuff they sampled in jazz? nah they jus saw a sick sample and cut it. the way it should be
i mean for fuck sake when jungle war-fare came along, a bunch of people had probably never even heard the original tunes the breaks were from. it's not ideal but it's no bad thing

in terms of copywrite, none of that stuff is probably made for commercial re-sale, i think they'd be more annoyed ur using it in a dubstep tune haha

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