Unbelievable

search · Post by **search** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:18 pm

I'm going to play devils advocate here...
How about new dubstep producers who are unfimiliar with the music of early dubstep pioneers el-b etc.. Do you think it is necissary for them to be aquainted with the early dubstep sound to produce it now?

crazydave · Post by **crazydave** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:57 pm

Search wrote:I'm going to play devils advocate here...
How about new dubstep producers who are unfimiliar with the music of early dubstep pioneers el-b etc.. Do you think it is necissary for them to be aquainted with the early dubstep sound to produce it now?

As with everything, if you know where you've come from you get a better idea of
where you're going - and hopefully, don't repeat what's already been done.

I'm all for increasing one's knowledge of music (as a worthwhile goal in itself),
but isn't there something to be said for the innocence of a fresh perspective?
If people get too wrapped up in their "influences", there's a chance they'll start biting.

149 · Post by **149** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:21 pm

Re: House/ Reggae/ Descendant

Yeah, I get the house influence. but the way I see it the london sound Is all a continuation of Reggae, through dub, bashment, jungle...etc

IMO You can hear it clearer through the likes of jah shaka and mad pro.

Thier are hid hop 'heads' who arnet familiar with bambaataa, busy bee, kool herc or even primo and rock, ha. If this 'scene' survives then a similar scenario may occur with the origins of dubstep.

Its not nescessary to be into the mashup roots of the music you listen to or produce. Maybe theres not much I can add to whats already been said. yeah, its a shame esp when you move on to next gen producers who arn't coming up with freshness, in which case its nice to go back before you go forward. Recently I'm getting the feeling that dubstep is increasingly seperate to grime, not that they were ever connected at the hip but they both seem to be evolving in different directions and attracting a different audience, nevermind newcomers not being familiar with older producers or grass roots, how far back can you trace the music until you start talking about africa, complaining that people don't even know where drums come from.

sometimes its good enough to be attracted to the 'freshness' of a sound, but that never lasts long.

danolboy · Post by **danolboy** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:41 pm

dstepz wrote:hm, Ive seen people cookin pizza (and it was fukin great pizza) and they werent italian
--
jus a point

Yeah but they must have been following core recipes that were first laid down by the italians.

If you tried to make pizza without having a clue what goes into it, it'd taste like shit and not alot like a pizza should.

How can you bring the dub influence into the sound if you've not even aware of it.

Also house is very far down the line when it comes to dubstep influences. No way would I consider it an immediate influence.

imagine · Post by **imagine** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:41 pm

i do find it a bit surprising some people dont know about the originators...

but there are no fucking rules to making music are there?

someone with no knowledge of king tubby may bring some new ideas just as someone who owns every dub tubby ever made might do.

i dont really care.

shonky · Post by **shonky** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:43 pm

Search wrote:I'm going to play devils advocate here...
How about new dubstep producers who are unfimiliar with the music of early dubstep pioneers el-b etc.. Do you think it is necissary for them to be aquainted with the early dubstep sound to produce it now?

I think the earlier dubstep sound had more variety to it, so it wouldn't hurt. At the mellower end of current dubstep, a lot of it reminds me of trip hop (skunked out vibe, slow beats, repetition) so it's only a new sound to people who's memories don't go back that far.

My only concession to dub in my collection is a Trojan box set and a few bits and pieces I've picked up, yet I've been influenced by a lot of dubby music. I did search back to find the roots of the form, but a lot of dub just leaves me cold (as with a lot of current dubstep).

I think it's good to have a wide range of influences, and find out where they're from as dubstep producers that only listen to dubstep will ultimately, unless they have a great deal of imagination/open-mindedness just narrow the sound down to a narrow, homogenised uniformity (a la most dnb).

narcossist · Post by **narcossist** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:29 pm

RE: the original post

Lets just enjoy the music for what it is eh, if something is crap chances are it'll prob never see the light of day [and if you're not feelin something that is released don't buy it], if its good skank hard to it when your out and give props to those who deserve them, irrelevant of what influenced them to make those tunes.

just my point of view on things

lordninjah · Post by **lordninjah** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:45 pm

if it's good, skank hard to it

well said

imho:
everyone's got original etched inside them, that's whats talkin' to you when you hear a track that you really feelin. you're feelin' it b/c someone dug in and brought that out, that's where it's at. at that point not much else matters, so long as you're still breathin.

when you feel it, you know it

metalboxproducts · Post by **metalboxproducts** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:54 pm

Is dubstep g*y?

. .

elemental · Post by **elemental** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:48 pm

Good points ... think a lot of people attribute too much to the name given to this music, yeah a lot of producers are well influenced by dub, myself included, but thats not its only root, the way I see it the direct lineage of dubstep is from uk garage - 2-step + "breakstep" (dare I say it!?), D&B, jungle, hardcore, acid house/techno... and you can prob trace a lot of acid house influences from original 70's dub music, they pioneered a lot of the techniques we use now.

But to say that a producer must know this lineage to be making 'dubstep' is ridiculous! Dubstep's just a term that came about, same as jungle, house etc.

And I agree with the points that young producers can come with a totally fresh sound by not having this knowledge.

unlikely · Post by **unlikely** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:57 pm

codswallop

some of the best music ever made was made in blissful ignorance

its like saying only art historians can make art, whereas generally you'll find that a lot are art historians cause they can't make art.

deville · Post by **deville** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:19 pm

I'd just like to say, without wanting to get too 'deep' that when you think about it enough the idea of any kind of origin for any kind of music is a very dubious concept, its far too much of a complex thing for that.

What is interesting is that although the idea of this thread has been done to death by everyone everywhere over the past hundred years at least it still gets people talking. I suppose the moral is, its good to talk.

struggle · Post by **struggle** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:27 pm

metalboxproducts wrote:Is dubstep g*y? . .

dude, if you don't know about g*y, and it's influences on dubstep you should throw in the towel

bedward · Post by **bedward** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:31 pm

i think a lot of dubsteppers would benefit from hearing some lee perry productions, some king tubby, some scientist, augustus pablo, blackbeard, jah shaka and some prince far-i.
just because they might enjoy it.

i think the jamaican musical legacy has probably influenced many ppl who never even heard any jamaican style music, though.
the changes made there to musical appreciation are worldwide, helping to spur on hiphop, new-wave, house and jungle with some essential insights.
the statements made by musicians in the jamaican tradition are implicit in new statements made by other musicians everyday.
passed on like genes...

i love rocksteady/dub/ska/roots/lovers/reggae music,
but i don't feel the need to go and listen to all the american rhythm and blues music that they (the jamaican musicians of the 50s and 60s) were trying to emulate.
i think the altered version is much more my cup of tea.

that's what i think anyway!

ozeb · Post by **ozeb** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:32 pm

unlikely wrote:some of the best music ever made was made in blissful ignorance

please provide examples.

metalboxproducts · Post by **metalboxproducts** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:35 pm

struggle wrote:
metalboxproducts wrote:Is dubstep g*y? . .
dude, if you don't know about g*y, and it's influences on dubstep you should throw in the towel

I always thought it was super macho phobe music. I'm outta this shit damn straight.

bedward · Post by **bedward** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:48 pm

ozeb wrote:
unlikely wrote:some of the best music ever made was made in blissful ignorance
please provide examples.

rolf harris' version of stairway to heaven.

straight up. he'd never heard the original.

unlikely · Post by **unlikely** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:51 pm

ozeb · Post by **ozeb** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:53 pm

Bedward wrote:
ozeb wrote:
unlikely wrote:some of the best music ever made was made in blissful ignorance
please provide examples.
rolf harris' version of stairway to heaven.

straight up. he'd never heard the original.

are you being facetious? or do you really thing that Rolf Harris makes "some of the best music ever made"?

Had he heard the original of Three Blind Mice when he recorded it in 57?

I'm just sayin'

bedward · Post by **bedward** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:02 pm

precisely.

and was he trying to approximate the sound of a didgeridu with that piano/cello drone on sun arise,
or was he more influenced by the sufi musicians he fell in with during his tour of rajasthan?
or was it that lamonte young gig in melbourne that tipped him off?

Unbelievable

Original

Who is online