Tape distortion

xthewiddler · Post by **xthewiddler** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:03 pm

Is putting a tape distortion over the entire mix out supposed to help with getting warmth ?

i find i have trouble getting rid of harsh digital artifacts and sounds

dj fidelity · Post by **dj fidelity** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:58 am

I think that is a matter of Opinion. Personally I think you are right it will distort and introduce harsh elements if placed over the whole Track.

Working with a friend we have had good results using a Vintage warmer or an Old Skool Compressor like the UAD Fairchild VST

Mod edit - don't post torrents you pillock.

Good Luck.

matthew_ · Post by **matthew_** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:24 am

Mod edit - don't quote people posting Torrents either - twice as much work for us!!

ali jamieson · Post by **ali jamieson** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:45 am

i recently had this discussion with a friend of mine

um yes and no. at mastering stage on our las EP they [tastefully] drenched the thing in tape saturation and it sounded better than the mixes we heard before mastering

however

in relation to dumping audio on to real tape [reel to reel or dodgy casio style] then i'd a/b everything. if you have the time...

i.e you dump ur drums on there, listen to it tape saturated and digital. repeat this with all tracks and pick what sounds good analog 'd and what sounds better digitized. personally wobbles and hard peaking drums sounds great with a wee bita tape compression but anything with a huge stereo image or lots of fine cutting EQ i leave in digital

then when it comes to ur master i leave as is... but that's a matter of pref.

spencertron · Post by **spencertron** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:01 pm

xTheWiddler wrote:Is putting a tape distortion over the entire mix out supposed to help with getting warmth ?

i find i have trouble getting rid of harsh digital artifacts and sounds

it'll make it sound a bit different and compress. what are you using? i've got an akai reel to reel...it's great but i rarely use it...once i get it re-hooked up you should send me a track and i'll do it for you so you can hear the difference.

dj fidelity · Post by **dj fidelity** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:42 pm

Now NOw. We have the Real UAD Plugin at a retail cost of £700 +

I was merely suggesting, that SHOULD you not have that type of money, you COULD be Frivelous and have a word with those ScuRvy Pirates down at the Bay...

whineo · Post by **whineo** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:43 pm

the point is that such suggestions can cause legal trouble for forums leading to closure. thus unhappy steppers

FSTZ1 · Post by **FSTZ1** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:04 pm

the "analog warmth" feel that people are always saying they miss is actually the sounds of breaching the headroom of analog tape, thus causing distortion.

badeshi · Post by **badeshi** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:31 pm

dont know if it will necesarily get rid of digital artifacts.
Make sure you are dithering correctly and all samples are truncated nicely...
To increase 'warmth' I have found re-sampling through a guitar amp works well, even just an old stomp box....

xthewiddler · Post by **xthewiddler** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:02 pm

great thanks for all thse tips!

experimenting now

Sharmaji · Post by **Sharmaji** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:07 pm

what are you doing that gives you digital artifacts?

in general the less you need to do to the master to make things sound 'good', the better. if it sounds like it's missing some life, go in and treat the sources rather than the whole tune. strapping vintagewarmer across the mix buss can give you a sense of where it might make things sound better (ie, drums or vox), but it'll often create some haze if you use it at anything but really low settings.

get it bangin' earlier and you'll have less to fix!

xthewiddler · Post by **xthewiddler** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:32 pm

TeReKeTe wrote:what are you doing that gives you digital artifacts?

in general the less you need to do to the master to make things sound 'good', the better. if it sounds like it's missing some life, go in and treat the sources rather than the whole tune. strapping vintagewarmer across the mix buss can give you a sense of where it might make things sound better (ie, drums or vox), but it'll often create some haze if you use it at anything but really low settings.

get it bangin' earlier and you'll have less to fix!

i meant digital harshness i think,

also im not talking about a whole lot of tape, i mean very very little just to get than clean feeling off a track

osk · Post by **osk** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:48 pm

Don't bother. If you ever take your tunes down to get mastered they'll ask for a clean mix with nothing on the master so you may as well get it sounding good as TeReKeTe says at source.

Vintage Warmer might make it SOUND a little louder and more meaty, but I bet it will sound rank in on a proper system and not particularly punchy.

thetaco · Post by **thetaco** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:19 pm

Put a vintage warmer on your master and it'll sound great at first, come back with fresh ears a day later and there's a large chance it will sound like ass (at least in my experience).

If you have trouble taking the digital edge off of your productions take them to an engineer with analog gear and ask them if there's anything they can do.

edit: Reason's tape warmth makes most things a lot fatter but be careful of the amount of compression you use.

setspeed · Post by **setspeed** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:35 pm

+1 vote for the 'don't put effects on your master if you can avoid it' camp....

can you be more specific about the 'digital' sound or 'lack of warmth'?

the quality of 'warmth' is often associated with low mids and/or not too much harsh top... so i'd have a look at some of your midrange stuff. is there a synth line that could do with a bit of an EQ boost around 300Hz? have you hpf'd something a bit too aggressively?

one mistake I used to make was to whack a bit of 3KHz-ish on everything (well, snares, hihats etc) to help things 'cut through' the mix a bit more. the end result was that my whole mix was harsh.... also i hear in some mixes that people just go a bit over the top right at the top end (say 8/10kHz and above) trying to get a sparkly, bright mix, which is not always a good thing imo. can sound a bit clinical.

don't forget the fun of adding slight distortion onto individual channels to roughen them up a bit. i don't know what DAW you're using but the Bitcrusher in Logic 5.5 on PC was awesome for subtle grit. used it on everything. unfortunately they've changed the sound in logic 8 and it doesn't have the same bite....

abZ · Post by **abZ** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:31 am

FSTZ wrote:the "analog warmth" feel that people are always saying they miss is actually the sounds of breaching the headroom of analog tape, thus causing distortion.

It's subtle tho. Back in recording school I was taught to record everything into the red on the old Otari 24. I wouldn't use a plug in on my whole mix. Let the mastering engineer handle that stuff but if you have an r2r handy it's worth a try IMO. My boy has a studio down the road, I might try it out on my stuff once I get back to the produckle.

slothrop · Post by **slothrop** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:23 am

setspeed wrote:+1 vote for the 'don't put effects on your master if you can avoid it' camp....

can you be more specific about the 'digital' sound or 'lack of warmth'?

the quality of 'warmth' is often associated with low mids and/or not too much harsh top... so i'd have a look at some of your midrange stuff. is there a synth line that could do with a bit of an EQ boost around 300Hz? have you hpf'd something a bit too aggressively?

one mistake I used to make was to whack a bit of 3KHz-ish on everything (well, snares, hihats etc) to help things 'cut through' the mix a bit more. the end result was that my whole mix was harsh.... also i hear in some mixes that people just go a bit over the top right at the top end (say 8/10kHz and above) trying to get a sparkly, bright mix, which is not always a good thing imo. can sound a bit clinical.

don't forget the fun of adding slight distortion onto individual channels to roughen them up a bit. i don't know what DAW you're using but the Bitcrusher in Logic 5.5 on PC was awesome for subtle grit. used it on everything. unfortunately they've changed the sound in logic 8 and it doesn't have the same bite....

Some good points here.

Does 'digital harshness' mean "it doesn't sound like it does when I use my room full of analogue synths and vintage mixers" or "I'm not quite satisfied with the sound and I'm not sure why" or something in between?

gravious · Post by **gravious** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:13 pm

Personally, i'd just try really hard to get a track sounding more-or-less as i want it before applying any global effects. If there are certain areas that need more warmth, i try and identify them individually, and compresse/distrot or whatever. that way you have a lot more control on the end product!

thinking · Post by **thinking** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:38 am

drwurst · Post by **drwurst** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:55 pm

ThinKing wrote:...

???

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