The future of the Production forum - PLEASE READ!!

[drwurst]

I think Festa & Forensix already offered to be mods for the production forum and received support from regular users.

+1

and futures untold is contibuting a lot in the last weeks if he / they would apply i would vote for them also...as for unkle fes and forensix.

[bitter]

I know this is a massive step up from what is going on now, but, perhaps what we should be aiming for is many sub-production-forums. one for each DAW, one for EQ/Compression/Mixing/Mastering queries, one for synthesis, one for percussion, one for "new commers" (read: ask about ur wobble here) etc...

A nice thought but pretty ambitious given the current use of/state of the forum. There are plenty of other forums out there dedicated to DAWs, studio technique, synths etc that can be referenced in the 'uber-sticky' (as mentioned above). This forum is about dubstep production as opposed to a help-desk for grunts who instantly want to be coki innit with their freshly-cracked copy of fruity or whatever. The uber-sticky can be the ultimate start point for all new users of the forum, and that coupled with some stern moderation will help imo

[tempest]

Make unklefesta and decklyn quit their jobs and become full-time moderators and we should be good to go...

Most of the shit new people are posting about is already covered in the production bible/wobble stickies.. So perhaps we have to just shove those in their face more forcefully

[dom]

if there could be a couple of people who kept an eye on the place and made shure things stay in order this could become a really valuable place for new and experienced producers alike.
If the people mentioned above wanted to do it that would be good or I would be happy to aswell.

[thinking]

yea like I say, clearly the way forward is to have a couple of Mods for this forum, although we have some thinking to do before that happens.

And whilst those who contribute much to the forum are always appreciated, that's a different thing than keeping it neat & tidy...

thanks for all the feedback so far. It will take a while to change anything, but it will definitely happen.

[abstractsound]

For the noobs (how do I make a wobble bassline on this synth plz help etc..):
I recommend not letting people who have just joined the forum (maybe 2-4 days) start a new thread in the production section. This forces them to actually SEARCH for topics or look at the stickies, which most people generally look straight past anyway. You could also have a stickied thread entitled something like "Can't start a new thread? look here!" or "Noob section"


i think that is a really good idea. immediately anyone who joins for the production forum would notice that its the only forum they cant post in, and upon recognizing a thread called "I CANT START A NEW THREAD!!! HELP?" they'd more than likely notice it and read it. i would make it longer than 2 or 4 days though, try like 2 weeks

[futures_untold]

Some good ideas being bandied about here!

In my opinion, I believe that having stickies about specific production topics would extremely useful. Having stickies regarding common production themes would be helpful as people could simply refer to the sticky to find out information about any given topic.

The first post of each topic could be updated with new links to relevant threads & webpages, much like the Dubstep Production Forum Bible. Then below, people could ask questions regarding the topic and have people answer them within each thread.

I like the The Dubstep Production Forum Bible because it is comprehensive in the subjects it covers. Perhaps we should be working with Daft tnuc to build up his first post by finding more useful links regarding each production subject he's covered?

Daft tnuc, maybe you could go through the thread itself and fish out all the useful information contained within, then update your first post to be even more comprehensive using what others have already contributed??!! (This saves trailing through 6 pages to find the quality info on sine waves and frequency ranges for instance.)(IMO)

So yeah, +1 for stickes concerning basic production topics.

Another +1 for supporting Daft tnuc to make the Dubstep Production Forum Bible better with new links and revised formating.

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I think the existing forum rules and production forum stickies need to be revised for clarity.

For instance, the Big thread of Wobble, would it be possible to merge all those linked threads together? Some of those threads contain gems, while others simply contain the LFO tied to Filter tip that many of us are bored of re-reading. Trailing through each thread takes time, but only a few of those threads really contain info worth reading... (again, IMO of course hehe)

If the mods here were prepared to merge threads regarding the same topic, that would make the search engine more useful with less boomf to read in between.

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I realise that forums like studio central are uber strict on posting and using the search function. Because of their insistance on doing my own research, every time I visit that forum I learn something new! It may take longer, but I seem to learn more as I follow up the side topics introduced whilst reading about the main topic I was interested in.

I feel everyone needs to be more consistent in pointing each other to the relevant threads regarding topics the being brought up. Maybe we could all be tighter in asking n00bs to post dubs in the dubs section etc?

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I'd support a 'no new posts until you've introduced yourself' rule. Maybe a new sticky could be created for this? At the top of this thread we could have big pointers to some relevant links about common production topics?

In the long run, I think that insisting on 'no new posts for X amount of time' is counter productive for getting new forum members.

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My two cents worth anyway...

[tsunami]

im a noob to production as some can tell. My suggestion, have new ppl read the prod. bible and other FAQ, then accept an agreement. States the rules that you wish applied here. Then if broken you can take action.

Also have the mod/mods proof read new topics, if approved then get posted. This would get away from multiple posts and start new ideas or topics.

[futures_untold]

I'm a n00b to production as some can tell. My suggestion, have new ppl read the prod. bible and other FAQ, then accept an agreement. States the rules that you wish applied here. Then if broken you can take action.

Yes, reading an agreement page that has links to relevant subjects is an idea I support.

(Calling yourself a n00b is a bit harsh bro! We know what we know and we can always use what we know to help those that don't. (Even n00bs).

Also have the mod/mods proof read new topics, if approved then get posted. This would get away from multiple posts and start new ideas or topics.

Might take a while, but the quality of the threads would improve as stuff would be on topic.

so +1 for both suggestions!

[thinking]

Daft tnuc, maybe you could go through the thread itself and fish out all the useful information contained within, then update your first post

any Mod would be able to edit posts & move threads which will make this easier. We can also build a threads in a hidden forum and then bring them in here (and keep it locked) to stop people posting non-useful info in them.

If the mods here were prepared to merge threads regarding the same topic, that would make the search engine more useful with less boomf to read in between.

unfortunately we have no Merge function on this forum at the moment - I hope/assume that it will be a function of PhpBB v3.0 which we will upgrade to in the future (at least that was the plan a while ago).

[futures_untold]

^^^^^^

When I have time, I'll work on fishing some choice threads from oblivion and making the existing threads more concise. I'll need the support of the original thread posters on this however....

I don't want to undo anyones hard work or step on anyones toes... (I know from experience it takes aaaaaages to compile a long thread that's easy to read with good links etc.....)


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Upgrade the forum engine when you can! A merge function would help you guys no doubt lol

[syhr]

as a complete noob to producing, i've spent the last few days searching through the production forum and reading anything i can about basic techniques, FL tips & tutorials etc, and i agree it needs to be more organized...

however... it would need to be done properly, and if re-posted threads are to be made into 1 comprehensive topic, it would probably take a lot of re-writing. for example, i just read the 'big thread of wobble', and while it's good to have them all in one place, having to cherrypick the worthwhile info from between people taking the piss got to be tiresome after a few minutes.

also with the 'production bible' thread, i found it to be so disjointed in places that i didn't know what was relevant to someone at my basic level and what wasn't.

personally, i think that unless someone steps up to collate all the different topics into the relevant groups / threads etc to be made sticky, then leave it as it is and just be harsher with moderation. if a thread is a repost, lock it and bump the original thread. there's some golden information in this forum and i've already learned a lot - not all us noobs are going to come with 'wot do i do 2 mek teh wobble base' threads

[futures_untold]

i just read the 'big thread of wobble', and while it's good to have them all in one place, having to cherrypick the worthwhile info from between people taking the piss got to be tiresome after a few minutes.

I agree with you fully on that. When I read through it I quickly became bored of the piss takes & complaints..... Finding the truely useful info takes a while.

also with the 'production bible' thread, i found it to be so disjointed in places that i didn't know what was relevant to someone at my basic level and what wasn't.

+1

personally, i think that unless someone steps up to collate all the different topics into the relevant groups / threads etc to be made sticky, then leave it as it is and just be harsher with moderation.

I'm up for it, although it will take some time. Maybe we could delegate different subjects to different volunteers to make things less onerous.

If a thread is a repost, lock it and bump the original thread.

Great idea! +10

[theonelikepaul]

I'd like to see something similar to 'the grid' where big name producers come online and answer tech questions (on thier own technique) posted into a thread.

Large up J from Transition for posting great info into lots of threads here.

Mods, could do more to delete 'waste/wobble' threads. Perhaps implement a 'waste thread referral system'. pm a mod a link when you see a waste thread so they can delete it.

Plus can we have less of 'please do a search' 'please use the search function'. If your gonna respond to a thread, make it worthwhile, and include some search results linking it to the subject in question, otherwise your post is just as much of a waste as the originators.

[daft cunt]

also with the 'production bible' thread, i found it to be so disjointed in places that i didn't know what was relevant to someone at my basic level and what wasn't.

+1

Agreed. I made the production bible while stepping into synthesizing and mixdowns...
Futures untold, you're more than welcome to help me sorting it out.
Many people consider it should be improved but until today nobody offered their help.

[drifterman_]

Damn..

Lost a piece of respect for you after reading this ThinKing.

As for the Production forum, we've discussed it between the Mods before, we even considered getting rid of it as a great deal of it is embarrassingly shite to read.

If you are so sensitive that you and "the Mods" find it embarrassing to read whats on the production forum, god knows how you feel when you read most of the stuff posted in the other sections of this forum. New people should be encouraged to come and ask questions, not turned away.

Threads like 'help me make good wobble' are painful to read over and over. The Grid on DOA (arguably the best/most useful production forum on the net) would punish idiocy of this level quickly and harshly.

DOA, DOA, DOA.. why do I keep hearing people compare this forum to that? They are two different entities and should be treated as such. If we want to post on DOA we'll post there instead, were here for a reason. When you first began to DJ was your "idiocy" behind the decks punished "quickly and harshly"? People need somewhere to come and learn, I don't like the coneption that lots of people like to cultivate of the production being some mystical and secretive art. I like to encourage more and more producers to get on this so we hear more interesting & new music. To think that an internet forum has the ability or right to punish is laughable too.

One possible solution would be to spend a bit of time making more comprehensive threads on all the common topics, sticky them, and lock/delete all threads that then cover old ground.

Good idea.

Also, on a personal level, I fucking HATE threads where people ask "what should I do with this tune?" or similar questions. It's YOUR music, YOU'RE the one being creative, either make the music you want to make or just give up. If you want to make music with other people, do so. Don't just put it to the forum if you've run out of ideas, it's cripplingly unimaginative.

What you personally hate or don't hate is entirely irrelevant here. Your job is as a mod, not as some sort of forum guru who passed judgment based on his own airs and graces. Let people ask what they want, stop watching them so hard, stop getting so angry. Yeah its THEIR music so let THEM make it how THEY want. If they want input, then so be it. Its not for you to tell them how they should go about producing. It could be argued that its just as cripplingly unimaginative to refuse to work with anyone else or to take on other peoples points of views when making your own music.

Similarly, questions like "what synth/software is best for _____" or "which ____ shall I buy" are a waste of space, for various reasons.

What "various reasons"? People are often spending their own hard earned money on this equipment and therefore have every right to research it as thoroughly as they want. There are alot of helpful and knowledgable people here who don't possess the bitterness and aloofness that you do, that are perfectly happy to help newbies out with their questions.

[djake]

its already been said but we need some mods for this section of the forum.

we have already talked about this and there was a thread about it.

but nothing was done about it.

[thinking]

Lost a piece of respect for you after reading this ThinKing.

why? For starters, I was never one to suggest getting rid of the forum, and yes we do find other parts of the forum a little tiresome as well, that's the nature of a rapidly-growing forum with a member base which has varying levels of knowledge. Surely you're not trying to suggest that we should simply put up with acres of "Help me copy Coki" threads?? At no point have I said that new people should be discouraged from posting - the whole reason I (and others) are planning on putting lots of our free time into this is to make it MORE useful for new members/producers.


The comparison to DOA is a valid one, as it's one of the only dance music-based forums on the www that's bigger than this one - we don't copy what they do at all, but they're more established than us and lessons can be learnt from their mistakes/successes. At any rate, I referenced the Grid which, I'm sure most would agree, is a fairly different forum to the Board on Dogs. As for 'idiocy' - my point is that the simplest questions are ones that, imo, one should answer for yourself. The journey is part of the point, you learn things along the way and your production and technique becomes unique to you. I do not think beginners being spoonfed everything is healthy. Surely you wouldn't disagree that there are some very very silly questions being asked??


Regarding people asking for advice on tunes - I have nothing against people asking for ADVICE i.e. "what's wrong with my X, why can't I get my Y to do Z" - the difference is asking "what does my tune need". Yes it's subjective, but I personally think this is a creatively redundant way of writing music. I am free to state this as a member of the forum, and I have never moved/deleted a post for people asking this. To pretend that every Mod should remain 100% objective at all times is pretty unfair to us.


As for 'various reasons' regarding equipment/software threads, perhaps I over-simplfied. How would you answer the question "what are the best monitors for £___", for example? You can't!! It's a stupid question. The only way to answer that is for the person to go to a shop with their money, and spend it wisely once they've listened to a few sets. Similarly asking "what's the best synth for bass" or "what's the best sequencer" is fucking absurd - all have their merits and pitfalls and all have been used by talented producers to make great music. I would much rather have useful threads we can refer such questions to, which are full of tips, advice and reviews which will help people to make the right decision.



Look, I'm sorry if you disagree with what I said, and I don't argue that some of it was harsh and direct, but frankly this Production forum is a mess and, as others have said, disjointed - however, with some careful moderation and a new structure & set of rules, it can be a truly useful resource for producers of all levels. I'm offering to spend my own time helping this to happen, and hopefully others will do so - yourself included if you have strong feelings on the way this place should be run.

[corpsey]

I reckon we should rip off DOA and get celebrity producers online for Q and A sessions in which I can ask them how to make wobble and who REALLY flew that plane into the WTC

[slothrop]

Drifterman has some fair points, though. A forum where n00bs posting repeat threads get "quickly and harshly punished" doesn't sound to me like a friendly and informative forum, it sounds like a forum full of arrogant elitist wankers. OTOH, having more active mods who lock the thread and politely point out the stickies and the search button would probably be a good thing.

Re people asking for advice on tunes, gear whatever - if it's yet another "what's the best VST" thread where people should search or look at the stickies, sure, lock it, see above. But otherwise if topics of a threads are intrinsically pointless then people wouldn't keep posting them and replying to them. Threads that noone replies to drop down the board. Imo that's a much better way of getting rid of them than having a mod decide that tthe subject is pointless or isn't interesting - having overactive moderation like that on a forum tends to make it feel more like a primary school class in my experience, and less like a bunch of adults talking about what interests them.

Maybe rationalizing the stickies would help matters, though. Although pretty much all the information is in the Production Bible first post (eg links to threads about monitors) and people post them anyway.