Best audio engine???

[antipop]

Hey, lurked in the forums for a while now, this is my first post.

Been producing for some years on Reason mostly but am finding that although I can make the sounds I want, it still sounds pretty shitty audio quality wise.

I Always make sure to use good samples and what not but am just not feeling the end result. Even Ableton I find has a pretty sub-standard engine ....

I am thinking about moving to FL8 .... seems to have everything I could want or need for my workflow + Great sound quality.

Opinions, thoughts?????

[jasonk1234]

I use fl 8 and I am very satisfied but I use sound forge for my recording. If you wanna work in the music industry you'll have to learn pro tools I think. that is my next purchase

[antipop]

Ya, I learnt on pro-tools (audio school) and logic .... I just love reason for my workflow. I'm hoping FL8 will be very similar.

Curious to see if amyone else has similar gripes about these programs

[Disco Nutter]

I moved from FL to Ableton Live and don't regret it at all. Improved my workflow and sound. But each to their own.

[slothrop]

Every time I've seen a scientific test done (ie not someone making a tune and deciding it sounds 'a bit wooden in the high-mids' and that that must be down to the DAW), the actual mixing part of the software is exactly the same. I mean, exactly as in if you mix a bunch of audio files and then invert the output from one DAW and add it with the same mix from another DAW, they'll cancel. Perfectly, bit for bit.

The only differences anyone's identified conclusively are the host's built in plugins (which is a big catch for Reason since you can't just use better VSTs if you don't like what it's got), a few default settings (eg the panning law) and (the big one) the workflow - ie if you find protools more natural for mixing you'll probably make better sounding mixes in it.

Anything else is, as far as anyone can demonstrate, just a placebo effect.

[shane]

I moved from FL to Ableton Live and don't regret it at all. Improved my workflow and sound. But each to their own.

[abZ]

Every time I've seen a scientific test done (ie not someone making a tune and deciding it sounds 'a bit wooden in the high-mids' and that that must be down to the DAW), the actual mixing part of the software is exactly the same. I mean, exactly as in if you mix a bunch of audio files and then invert the output from one DAW and add it with the same mix from another DAW, they'll cancel. Perfectly, bit for bit.

The only differences anyone's identified conclusively are the host's built in plugins (which is a big catch for Reason since you can't just use better VSTs if you don't like what it's got), a few default settings (eg the panning law) and (the big one) the workflow - ie if you find protools more natural for mixing you'll probably make better sounding mixes in it.

Anything else is, as far as anyone can demonstrate, just a placebo effect.

I don't think Reason will stand up to that test. Not sure though never tried it myself. The point tho IMO is dead on. You should at least be using Reason rewired. I used Reason alone for years and I had some ok results but now that I switched to Ableton my sound design seemed to improved instantly. There has been some great music made in Reason by itself don't get me wrong it can be done but it is a bit limiting. The best thing about it is the stability which can not be desputed. I have never had it crash on me in 6 years. But if you have an update computer stability is not really much of an issue anymore. For the most part though the difference in "sound quality" between 90% of the apps is negligible. Let's put it this way if you did find an app that clearly had better sound quality than the rest, it wouldn't make your music any better. It's best to look for an app that works best with the way you think. If working with your app is effortless it is going to allow your creativity to flow IMO

[junglist]

I use Sony Acid Pro 6 and it's the dogs bollocks. Drag any VST's you use into C/Programs/VST folder and off you go. Will render up to 192,000k 24bit and the time code is very flexible. It comes with some basic effects (eg Resonant filter, reverb, delay, LFO, EQ...ect) but any synths will nedd to come from elsewhere.

[ninjadog]

The thing with Reason is you have to know a little about audio engineering to make it sound good, where as other programs and vst's do all the work for you. I mean you simply cant just throw a patch into a subtractor and expect to compete with something like albino. If you can understand why albino sounds good there is no reason you cant recreate it in Reason.

The comment Reason's engine just doesent sound good is just bullshit. There are tons of artists who use Reason and can make it sound "pro".

[thetaco]

The comment Reason's engine just doesent sound good is just bullshit. There are tons of artists who use Reason and can make it sound "pro".

Nu:Tone, Commix, Logistics


it's all reason.

[Disco Nutter]

It's all up to the person in my opinion. Ben can drop hits in FL, John in Ableton, Mike in Reason, Dave in Reaper, Sean in Renoise and so on.

It's up to the workflow preference.

[bitter]

It sounds like you know your stuff if you've learnt protools, logic and reason. I'd personally go back to using reason rewired into logic but hey, ask 10 people get 20 different answers

I was a cubase user for many many years until I switched to Logic at the beginning of the year. I don't know why but I prefer the sound to cubase, everything seems a little rounder and warmer. I guess that has to be down to the different VSTIs and plugins as nothing else in my studio has changed.

[abZ]

The thing with Reason is you have to know a little about audio engineering to make it sound good, where as other programs and vst's do all the work for you. I mean you simply cant just throw a patch into a subtractor and expect to compete with something like albino. If you can understand why albino sounds good there is no reason you cant recreate it in Reason.

The comment Reason's engine just doesent sound good is just bullshit. There are tons of artists who use Reason and can make it sound "pro".

That is absolute nonsense. Other programs and vst's do not do the work for you anymore than reasons synths and fx do the work for you. Reason's presets might not be as good I'll give you that. You have to know your stuff regardless of what host you use.

[james fox]

The comment Reason's engine just doesent sound good is just bullshit. There are tons of artists who use Reason and can make it sound "pro".

Nu:Tone, Commix, Logistics


it's all reason.

i think their tracks sound plastic though

but that's just me.

[doomproduction]

The comment Reason's engine just doesent sound good is just bullshit. There are tons of artists who use Reason and can make it sound "pro".

Nu:Tone, Commix, Logistics


it's all reason.

i think their tracks sound plastic though

but that's just me.

I second that!

I think despite the fact a lot of known producers use reason, you really wanna be using Logic, Cubase, Pro-tools, Ableton. Something that can host those all-important VST plugins

I used reason for about a year, still love how quickly you can make something in it, and the easy automation control... but since switching to Logic I've never looked back, it just generally sounds lusher, I'm no sound engineer so I can't explain why...

Just being able to use a VST drum machine (e.g. Battery) instead of Redrum is great. Made my drums sound better instantly for the ease of individual hit EQ / editing, and slick compressor

[nospin]

It sounds like you know your stuff if you've learnt protools, logic and reason. I'd personally go back to using reason rewired into logic

you can know a program inside and out and still not know much about mixing. I took a pro tools course for a year, knew the program pretty damn well, could get bands in to multitrack, overdub, do micro edits, rearrangements etc, etc...

but after that I took a class focused on recording and the mixdown process in general (focused on a hardware studio), and after that i moved on to ableton for my personal use... although i didn't know the software nearly as well as pro tools, my mix downs sound loads better.

to the original poster, i'd make sure you really know enough about mixing to know that the DAW you are using is really the problem (its hard to know that about you from your post, that something you'll need to figure out on your own)

i've heard the same thing about most of the major DAW's being the same, flipping the outputs and them canceling out... Reason is obviously limited though, mostly by the included processors.

i'd seek out some of those demos showing the differences in Audio Engines if you are really concerned about the ones you are thinking of choosing, i dont have any links though, sorry

things to consider: workflow, and quality of included processors

[slothrop]

i've heard the same thing about most of the major DAW's being the same, flipping the outputs and them canceling out... Reason is obviously limited though, mostly by the included processors.

Yeah, to some extent comparing sound quality of Reason and Cubase is like comparing sound quality of Massive or PSP Neon or whatever to Cubase - they aren't really the same thing.

[antipop]

As I understand it each DAW calculates sound output by mathematical algorithims that are proprietary to each piece of software. (i:e - Reason's algorithims are not the same as abletons)

So it would make sense that one piece of software would have better or different sound quality then another piece of software. Would it not??

[slothrop]

As I understand it each DAW calculates sound output by mathematical algorithims that are proprietary to each piece of software. (i:e - Reason's algorithims are not the same as abletons)

So it would make sense that one piece of software would have better or different sound quality then another piece of software. Would it not??

But essentially "calculating sound output" means taking the output of each VST and passing it to the next one, then scaling them according to where you've put the volume slider and adding them together. Speaking as a mathematician (no, really) I don't know any special algorithms for multiplying numbers together and adding them up. It's like saying that my Casio calculator is 'warmer' than your Texas Instruments one. The DAW itself isn't meant to colour the sound in any way, so the 'best' algorithm is going to be the one that just does the basic maths.

In any case, you can argue the theory all day - the practice is that I've never met anyone who's done a proper summing test that hasn't given back identical results.

[sonigo]

Just use whatever you want. Don't care about what others use.
Look at the different music progamms as individual instruments, and
then choose the instrument you love to play the most.