The Month In: Grime / Dubstep by Blackdown

[human?]

word...

im sure the digital to analog conversion ina cdj or serato box aint up to par with whats goin on from cd to lathe...

while im a fan of the physical, i aint mad at the digital either...

def just wondering if its a technical thing tho, or really all subjective... and if its subjective i aint tryin to open that can of worms lol...

[spiderman]

nice read.

id be interested in hearing a 5.1 surround system in a rave, that would be sick on minimal beats that have a lot of echo-ish sounds on em haha...

would catch ppl turning around haha.

i dont see anything wrong with moving a bit more towards digital, AS LONG AS vinyl always dominates and sound quality and quality control remains prominent.

[roytr0n]

5.1 would be sick...

have a tune incoming from the back or something...creep up on ya...that'd just be INSANE.

a whole new realm to DJing.

[braiden]

i know amon tobin did a 5.1 set at fabric. i believe richie hawtin has done this as well

[nitrous_mcbread]

dunno if this up already, if it is somewhere else, soz

Keysound Video presents: Dusk + Blackdown Margins Music:
http://www.vimeo.com/1467214?pg=embed&sec=1467214

just saw this on my reader last night

a nice watch

"Margins Music" is givin me chills. It's a key album in my humble oblivion - one of those that come along every year or two which really give that feeling of 'the future now'. Albums like "Dream of 100 Nations" by Transglobal Underground back in '93(?) and "Anokha: Soundz of the Asian Underground" a few years later. In ten years' time it'll sound horribly dated but right now I'm lapping it up like sag aloo. BIGGG!!!!

[jimitheexploder]

Before we get cats goin on to digital DJing with dubstep, which is a pretty young scene compared to say house and hip-hop. We really could do with some DJ's really cutin the shit out of these records, you know beat juggeling, making their own breaks, playing tunes inside out.

I mean half the sets I have heard that feature dubstep is all straight forward DJing, some of it isn't even mixed. I know re-loads are part of the culture and I enjoy a good pull up as much as the next guy. But if there was massive inventive mixing with viynal it would be sweet as hell.

Then we can move onto 5.1 and become movie producers on the bass generation.

P.S. are any DJ's really pushin things things in the scene?

I wana see a Mixmaster Mike of the dubstep pursasion by the end of the year kids heheheh....

P.P.S. I love readin this artical each month.

[prisoner]

Before we get cats goin on to digital DJing with dubstep, which is a pretty young scene compared to say house and hip-hop. We really could do with some DJ's really cutin the shit out of these records, you know beat juggeling, making their own breaks, playing tunes inside out.

I mean half the sets I have heard that feature dubstep is all straight forward DJing, some of it isn't even mixed. I know re-loads are part of the culture and I enjoy a good pull up as much as the next guy. But if there was massive inventive mixing with viynal it would be sweet as hell.

Then we can move onto 5.1 and become movie producers on the bass generation.

P.S. are any DJ's really pushin things things in the scene?

I wana see a Mixmaster Mike of the dubstep pursasion by the end of the year kids heheheh....

P.P.S. I love readin this artical each month.

so basically you want someone to do battle style cutting and scratching, but to dubstep?

i fail to see how that would "push things forward."

it's been done. and most of the time (if not all) it takes away from the listening experience, except by the heads (which really are a minority) who are into that stuff.

the only thing that's going to push things forward is the music itself.

[djshiva]

mad respect to LD for the great sounds he has brought forth in his music, but i still had to suppress a giggle at the idea that quality control is more possible (or more legitimate) with cutting plates as opposed to using digital files.

as if those of us who use digital will just play ANYTHING just because we have it.

the whole IDEA of DJing has always been, at its core, about selection. it does not matter if you are selecting plates or selecting files, a great DJ will always know what tune to drop and when, and a bad DJ will not. simple as.

format ain't got shit to do with it.

i only buy the tunes that i think are top quality, and of all the unreleased tunes i get, i would say only about 30% of them ever end up in steady rotation. again...selection is key. a DJ isn't good or bad based on the format they use, they are good or bad based on their skills and selection. period. end dot.

[jimitheexploder]

Before we get cats goin on to digital DJing with dubstep, which is a pretty young scene compared to say house and hip-hop. We really could do with some DJ's really cutin the shit out of these records, you know beat juggeling, making their own breaks, playing tunes inside out.

I mean half the sets I have heard that feature dubstep is all straight forward DJing, some of it isn't even mixed. I know re-loads are part of the culture and I enjoy a good pull up as much as the next guy. But if there was massive inventive mixing with viynal it would be sweet as hell.

Then we can move onto 5.1 and become movie producers on the bass generation.

P.S. are any DJ's really pushin things things in the scene?

I wana see a Mixmaster Mike of the dubstep pursasion by the end of the year kids heheheh....

P.P.S. I love readin this artical each month.

so basically you want someone to do battle style cutting and scratching, but to dubstep?

i fail to see how that would "push things forward."

it's been done. and most of the time (if not all) it takes away from the listening experience, except by the heads (which really are a minority) who are into that stuff.

the only thing that's going to push things forward is the music itself.

hehe nah I was just being a bit of a tool...

[classagraphics]

good read, i think the point about quality of music having to be high to get cut was a good point by LD. When money's involved people have to think a bit more about it and really judge their own works comparative to each other (or other peoples work) - the whole "get as much as I can" idea doesn't work that well in my opinion

and that post about the scratching, i'd say that dubstep is being spun by dudes at turntable battles and i've seen dudes through dubstep into hiphop sets and cut up and all the rest. Not to mention there are some badass djs in dubstep too, perhaps you just haven't caught them live...

[djshiva]

good read, i think the point about quality of music having to be high to get cut was a good point by LD. When money's involved people have to think a bit more about it and really judge their own works comparative to each other (or other peoples work) - the whole "get as much as I can" idea doesn't work that well in my opinion

so are those without money (to cut dubs) lacking the in ability to exercise quality control? this is, and has always been, my biggest issue with dubplate culture: the assumption that injecting money into the equation gives validity to those who have it, and those who cannot are somehow rendered moot by the imbalance.

the "cutting dubplates means quality control, and other formats do not" argument is an argumentum ad populum, meaning that because many people believe it is true, that makes it so. there is no logic or rational argument that makes it so, no matter how many times it gets repeated.

communal reinforcement may keep the idea alive, but it doesn't make it true.

[classagraphics]

the "cutting dubplates means quality control, and other formats do not" argument is an argumentum ad populum, meaning that because many people believe it is true, that makes it so. there is no logic or rational argument that makes it so, no matter how many times it gets repeated.

Well I think the arguement is that getting records pressed costs money, thus people without much of it are going to be selective in what they chose to get pressed. I don't think its a blanket theory for the music industry, I think its pretty specific to english, perhaps even just london, dubplate culture - and I also think LD was referring to individuals being the selective ones, not the board at a record company.

In general, good music can be found anywhere, and lots of times with people that don't have the extra cash to produce a quantity of anything - but in the dubstep field i think most of these people aren't sound engineers and without some outside help (whether paid for or not) even their digital tunes will not be mixed down well enough for large systems to put out the sound properly.

[dj $hy]

"I can only think of one pro for using these digital mediums. Digital mediums are shock resistant. They can be used well in rocky terrain, e.g. a moving boat party, playing on a train; back of a truck etc. this cannot be done with vinyl."


lol, fuckin ell, would have to be pretty narrorminded to see this as the only pro for digital mediums.

LOL on a train!!! WTF!

Oh this is such a boring old convo man! Yes its better to cut, yes it means you will only cut your good shit, yes the digital revolution means less perfect copies of tracks are being played...

BUT.....

This scene was formed off shit mixdowns, kids in bedroom studios making beats on reason. Skream made his first beats on a playstation so you telling me them mixdowns were crisp?! No they didnt, they were still cut, still played!

I personally think Transition should embrace this digital revolution or I fear just like every other cutting house they will go under. I mean I might be wrong here but doesnt it cost more to get mp3's mastered than cutting to dub?!

If it was so sonically different why do so so so many DJ's in every other field's of music use it? How has house music become so big with the DJ's using digital media?! I don't see people in that scene venting rage at how the scene is gonna die through crap media.

End of the day its simple imo. If you could afford to go cutting you would. But telling everyone its the end of all things quality cos we are moving to digital media is very narrowminded and detrimental to the scene.

Ihave strong feelins about this subject and before anyone starts thinking I'm aving a go at LD or trans I just aint, LD knows I love him (and wanna steal his ears!) but I do get angry at how this scene is the only one that seems to think if its not cut its shit! That is such a shit attitude in this day n age! Lets not forget we are talking about media that is older that most you us. It will be gone soon, it will be something we will miss but humans evolve, thats the difference between us n apes! Don't be an ape!

Gotta love the Pitchfork biz tho, always promotes a good old natter! Out to Blackdown

[ikeaboy]

If thats true its the first i heard of it. How's that measured exactly?

The guy who mastered many of Bob Marley's singles and albums has a lecture on mastering. Have a look, it's very informative.

http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/vide ... e_makeover

Cheers for that, i'll deffinately have a look. As for the rest of the thread Shiva makes solid points (always) I personaly (having not watched the video yet) think its a culture rather than quality thing. I love vinyl and I prefer my 24bit recordings of my vinyl over MP3's.

[ikeaboy]

Doublepost

[gremino]

ALOT of mediocrity is being released in vinyl. I understand the argument about quality control through vinyl (and it sure works in to some extent), but does it really cut that much these average tunes?

The thing is, AFAIK, labels and especially distributors want to make some money, and originality doesn't make that (except in a long run! but not many are ready to wait good things to come...). That's way expensive vinyl is wanted to be cut without any risks, meaning the music will be in most cases predictable and boring...

thus people without much of it are going to be selective in what they chose to get pressed.

But some people doesn't even have money for A ONE 12"!!

There's an option for vinyl: mp3s, but what are peoples opinions about CD-releases (single/EP, not whole album)? I think they might be a nice option, because they are tangible (meaning there's also artwork) and if you handle them carefull, you don't lose them if your harddrive crashes. And they are certainly not as expensive to press as vinyl.

[ikeaboy]

ALOT of mediocrity is being released in vinyl. I understand the argument about quality control through vinyl (and it sure works in to some extent), but does it really cut that much these average tunes?

The thing is, AFAIK, labels and especially distributors want to make some money, and originality doesn't make that (except in a long run! but not many are ready to wait good things to come...). That's way expensive vinyl is wanted to be cut without any risks, meaning the music will be in most cases predictable and boring...

thus people without much of it are going to be selective in what they chose to get pressed.

But some people doesn't even have money for A ONE 12"!!

There's an option for vinyl: mp3s, but what are peoples opinions about CD-releases (single/EP, not whole album)? I think they might be a nice option, because they are tangible (meaning there's also artwork) and if you handle them carefull, you don't lose them if your harddrive crashes. And they are certainly not as expensive to press as vinyl.

I like your first point. I don't like CD singles that much (even though I've done some) unless theres at least 6 pieces on it and sturdy cases. Otherwise I may play a track from a Cd single out but I won't stick it in my player at home for the sake of 2 original tracks because I'm lazy that way. I'm starting to view a lot of CD's I own as clutter unless I really like the packaging/info sheets- may as well be files.

[jtransition]

I personally think Transition should embrace this digital revolution or I fear just like every other cutting house they will go under. I mean I might be wrong here but doesnt it cost more to get mp3's mastered than cutting to dub?!

How in your opinion are we not embracing the digital revolution?
Jason

[dj $hy]

I personally think Transition should embrace this digital revolution or I fear just like every other cutting house they will go under. I mean I might be wrong here but doesnt it cost more to get mp3's mastered than cutting to dub?!

How in your opinion are we not embracing the digital revolution?
Jason

The price of mastering mp3's! Maybe if it was cheaper, more accessible then more quality music would be heard. I think I’m right in saying it’s more expensive to get mp3’s mastered than cut dubs! I understand you’re paying for a skill set though Jason, you know I do! But maybe if it was cheaper, more people did it then it would become the norm. Thats better for the quality of the music, scene and you guys! Just from the point in the colum of playing bedroom mastered, not the best quality tracks. I think most producers would rather have someone like you guys to do it before they sent tracks out or their tracks are played out.

End of the day it’s so expensive to do, not your fault at all, not your fault your professional and I accept that just it’s not as accessible to everyone which is why a lot of DJ's use CD/Serato. I don’t think it’s fair to be immediately labelled just because you choose to use that media! I also think having so many ways of getting new music heard is nothing but a positive thing for the scene!

[jtransition]

This scene was formed off shit mixdowns, kids in bedroom studios making beats on reason. Skream made his first beats on a playstation so you telling me them mixdowns were crisp?! No they didnt, they were still cut, still played!

Irrespective of Skreams early mixdownds his tunes were cut by him and other people(10" dubplate).Whilst listening to his tracks being played out on dub he would have made adjustments to his mixes to get the sound that he was looking for(which is 1 reason to cut dubs in the first place).When Benga and Skream first came to Transition to cut dubs they were both at school.

I think I’m right in saying it’s more expensive to get mp3’s mastered than cut dubs!

Shy
You should ask questions instead of thinking
I believe the question is;
Why is it more expensive to master 1 track (for digital download etc) at Transition than it is to cut say 1 ten inch dub (two tracks)?
Because they are two different products.
Let me explain
A dub plate with two tracks does not get mastered, it gets a quick process through our analogue and digital signal path and then gets cut, simple as that.
A master whether it be vinyl, cd or for digital delivery (USB key, download, serato etc)
Is processed as per instructions from the client taking into account the end format,(some of our clients will leave it up to our judgment)
A dub plate is charged per unit and CD mastering is charged by the hour.
Hope this clears up your confusion.
Jason