death

nousd · Post by **nousd** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:41 am

defaecation as resurrection?
I think not.
The essence of the burrito ended with consumption.

Analogy:
I fall into a harvester
and the mince that comes out the back
is a rebirth of me.

Actually, I'm considering being minced when I die
and thrown overboard. Save the sharks chewing.

parson · Post by **parson** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:07 am

i'd rather be minced and thrown overboard than mummified and saved in a wooden box

black lotus · Post by **black lotus** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:52 am

i'll be cremated (hopefully) after i end my own life someday. i'm leaving this place on my own terms, unless something else beats me to it. until then, i'm going to do what i have to do. whatever that is.

Coppola · Post by **Coppola** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:36 am

i most certainly want to be donated to medical science if able. i see absolutely no reason why everyone should not.

noodle · Post by **noodle** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:39 am

I actually lost my fear of death last night / this morning.
Something that's haunted me for a fair while now... an odd feeling to be rid of it.

theevilgirl · Post by **theevilgirl** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:49 pm

i embrace death but death doesnt come to me.

oddfellow · Post by **oddfellow** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:02 pm

I've had a few family members die over the years and I never find much to celebrate about tbh. I think that grief and sadness is very important. If you dont get that out of you then it can cause many problems later on.

I also don't think there is an afterlife of any sort. At least not one you can experience. The blood stops flowing, the brain shuts down and thats it. Anything else is just human ignorance.

kins83 · Post by **kins83** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:05 pm

Tomity wrote:I've had a few family members die over the years and I never find much to celebrate about tbh. I think that grief and sadness is very important. If you dont get that out of you then it can cause many problems later on.

I also don't think there is an afterlife of any sort. At least not one you can experience. The blood stops flowing, the brain shuts down and thats it. Anything else is just human ignorance.

But that must be a tough thing to say if you've lost family? You know, thinking that there is nothing else. I almost think that the afterlife and similar thoughts are for the benefit of the grieving people left behind.

oddfellow · Post by **oddfellow** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:09 pm

kins83 wrote:
Tomity wrote:I've had a few family members die over the years and I never find much to celebrate about tbh. I think that grief and sadness is very important. If you dont get that out of you then it can cause many problems later on.

I also don't think there is an afterlife of any sort. At least not one you can experience. The blood stops flowing, the brain shuts down and thats it. Anything else is just human ignorance.
But that must be a tough thing to say if you've lost family? You know, thinking that there is nothing else. I almost think that the afterlife and similar thoughts are for the benefit of the grieving people left behind.

Its not nice at all but why should it be? Its horrible to lose those you love. I just feel that notions of an afterlife are down to the fact that we simply dont want to die. Its fair enough but its better to make the most of what you have imo.

d-T-r · Post by **d-T-r** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:00 pm

anyone who has had near death and out of body experience's will know theres more than meets the eye. 'you' are not your body and 'you' are not your mind. your just currently occupying and using it.
life has no actual shape. like water in a glass. the water its self isnt the shape of the glass. take away the glass and any other surface for it to land on and its form and boundries are much less limited than we percieve.

from what ive kinda experienced, the afterlife is like the dream or astral dimension. your mind and memory create the surroundings and you occupy them. alot of people die and dont even realise they're dead in the afterlife because they relate to much with their thoughts. if you cant be lucid in this dimension, you wont have much chance in the astral/after-life.

ill be the first to admit it all sounds like idealistic bullshit no doubt. but when you actually experience an out of body experience or some 'mystical 'focal point shift, you realise that your concept or anti-concepts are nothing more than mind made creations at best whether its for or against a subject.

you have the real 'version' of the world and life and then you have the version that we have defined and created words, sounds and accompanying opinions of good, bad etc.

the only thing limiting our own experiences and perception of life/death is our own self restrained boundaries created through our constant flow of opinions towards everything.

when you say what something is, your also defining what it isnt and what it cant be. hold back on the personalized mental running commentary in your life and you'll realise its not your thoughts and veiwpoints that make 'you'

also: death isnt the oppposite of life. death is the opposite of birth.

Life has no opposite. only when you specify and limit your focus towards 'what is' alive and compare it with 'what is' dead do you perceive a loss.

theres a dualism to it that creates the whole experience.you kinda have to move your focal point away from either half to realise the full scale of it. and once that full scale is realised, you have to remove the defintions and atachments towards even that.

you kinda have to move away from it to get closer to it.

suffering comes from mass personalization and seperation of the content of life rather than perceiving life as an in-exclusive unlimited thing. you are no more or no less alive than any other life form. the only thing that makes the difference is our perception of awareness and conciousness.

But, you can actually be aware and 'know' something without thinking it. thoughts are just the reflections/ricochets of things we already know. it just becomes hard to distinguish as the space between knowing something and thinking it are so closely followed. you can either be thron about tby the waves of thought on the surface of the ocean, or you can sit on the motionless ocean floor and have all of the clarity and space you need to realise and then know something

______

to the majority of you, all of the above will be ridiculous bullshit. fair enough to you im not here to force any opinions or any reactions. we're all on the same ride. take whatever parts currently resonate with you and disregard the rest.

nousd · Post by **nousd** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:14 pm

noodle wrote:I actually lost my fear of death last night / this morning.

You died?

legend4ry · Post by **legend4ry** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:16 pm

Good read dTruk

Ive taken the..

"take every day as it comes" option.

Ive had death in family and with friends - I haven't really thought about it, I mean you spend most of your life or a portion of your life, with this person, you share experiences with them, the join you in your .. "ride" as dTruk said above then one day they're gone..Maybe they just got on another 'train line' or something no one will truly know until we do it ourself...

All I know is, death can be a sad, tragic thing but memories last forever, stories will get told from generation to generation, maybe a few things get left out along the way - but there will always be another person who'll want to find out where they come from - So really I look at death as them starting a new legacy and left me to share there one here.

Funerals are what you make it really (sounds a bit odd) but you could go dressed in black, be all quiet and sad - Or actually celebrate what they left here, I think its up to you what you do to celebrate someones 'passing' just the western world seems to follow a trend..

drokkr · Post by **drokkr** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:28 pm

"ridiculous bullshit"
far from it mate, good post

bright maroon · Post by **bright maroon** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:31 pm

I read this story recently that made me really nervous - Tied love with death as the transitory element.

Freakin' Chinese - I really hope they were being poetic...

..masters of the psycho drama asians.

oddfellow · Post by **oddfellow** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:45 pm

dTruk wrote:anyone who has had near death and out of body experience's will know theres more than meets the eye. 'you' are not your body and 'you' are not your mind. your just currently occupying and using it.

I've had those experiences while on mushies and LSD but I just think thats because they make you very sensitive to your enviroment. This all takes place within your own mind. To say that 'you' are not your body or your mind is daft. Thats exactly what you are. You are born and your experiences and upbringing make what you are.

d-T-r · Post by **d-T-r** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:36 pm

Tomity wrote:
dTruk wrote:anyone who has had near death and out of body experience's will know theres more than meets the eye. 'you' are not your body and 'you' are not your mind. your just currently occupying and using it.
I've had those experiences while on mushies and LSD but I just think thats because they make you very sensitive to your enviroment. This all takes place within your own mind. To say that 'you' are not your body or your mind is daft. Thats exactly what you are. You are born and your experiences and upbringing make what you are.

fair enough to you im not here to force any opinions or any reactions. we're all on the same ride. take whatever parts currently resonate with you and disregard the rest.

i dont mean drug induced though. drugs can bring things like that but the ones ive had have been when ive been 100% sobre and they happened completely spontaneous.

im not here to set out to prove what ive experienced, seen and felt or anything...i couldnt even begin to think of the words to describe it all enough detail to do it justice. im fully aware its all stuff that cant be statiscally measured or documented aswell so obviously its already ruled out for a lot of people.

the mind made/mental dimension is gonna play a key role in the evolution of conciousness/awareness. but yeah either way...like you said, its all in your mind. if 'its' not in your mind or your focus is elsewhere, then your personal conciousness will block out whatever it has ruled out. bit like synconicity--its occurnace/proof/meaning or lack of, is amplified by your perception towards it whether or not you belive in it or think its bullshit.

deamonds · Post by **deamonds** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:42 pm

what a pleasant thread

diss04 · Post by **diss04** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:56 pm

deamonds wrote:what a pleasant thread

i concur.

nousd · Post by **nousd** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:21 pm

In the spirit (ahem) of Koala's original post,
I contend that any death has us reflect on our own so, ultimately, not letting go has to do with our not wanting to meet own demise.
Normal and healthy I would think, until it comes time to actually die. Shedding encumberances and detaching from dependences before then should make it easier "to let go". This doesn't imply not loving or not having or not being involved...it means remaining aware of the ephemeral nature of our being. Being ready, being open to change, being energized by the prospect of imminent non-being.
When I worked as a hospice volunteer, it became clear to me that the people who so prepared and did not cling, had easier endings. Their families had been farewelled in such a way that they were released from needing to feel mournful.

d-T-r · Post by **d-T-r** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:41 pm

The Great Way is not difficult
for those not attached to preferences.
When neither love nor hate arises,
all is clear and undisguised.
Separate by the smallest amount, however,
and you are as far from it as heaven is from earth.

If you wish to know the truth,
then hold to no opinions for or against anything.
To set up what you like against what you dislike
is the disease of the mind.

When the fundamental nature of things is not recognized
the mind's essential peace is disturbed to no avail.
The Way is perfect as vast space is perfect,
where nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess.

Indeed, it is due to our grasping and rejecting
that we do not know the true nature of things.
Live neither in the entanglements of outer things,
nor in ideas or feelings of emptiness.
Be serene and at one with things
and erroneous views will disappear by themselves.

When you try to stop activity to achieve quietude,
your very effort fills you with activity.
As long as you remain attached to one extreme or another
you will never know Oneness.
Those who do not live in the Single Way
cannot be free in either activity or quietude, in assertion or denial.

Deny the reality of things
and you miss their reality;
assert the emptiness of things
and you miss their reality.
The more you talk and think about it
the further you wander from the truth.
So cease attachment to talking and thinking,
and there is nothing you will not be able to know.

To return to the root is to find the essence,
but to pursue appearances or "enlightenment" is to miss the source.
To awaken even for a moment
is to go beyond appearance and emptiness.

Changes that seem to occur in the empty world
we make real only because of our ignorance.

Do not seek for the truth;
Only cease to cherish opinions.

Do not remain in a dualistic state;
avoid such easy habits carefully.
If you attach even to a trace
of this and that, of right and wrong,
the Mind-essence will be lost in confusion.
Although all dualities arise from the One,
do not be attached even to ideas of this One.

When the mind exists undisturbed in the Way,
there is no objection to anything in the world;
and when there is no objection to anything,
things cease to be— in the old way.
When no discriminating attachment arises,
the old mind ceases to exist.
Let go of things as separate existences
and mind too vanishes.
Likewise when the thinking subject vanishes
so too do the objects created by mind.

The arising of other gives rise to self;
giving rise to self generates others.
Know these seeming two as facets
of the One Fundamental Reality.
In this Emptiness, these two are really one—
and each contains all phenomena.
If not comparing, nor attached to "refined" and "vulgar"—
you will not fall into judgment and opinion.

The Great Way is embracing and spacious—
to live in it is neither easy nor difficult.
Those who rely on limited views are fearful and irresolute:
The faster they hurry, the slower they go.
To have a narrow mind,
and to be attached to getting enlightenment
is to lose one's center and go astray.
When one is free from attachment,
all things are as they are,
and there is neither coming nor going.

When in harmony with the nature of things, your own fundamental nature,
and you will walk freely and undisturbed.
However, when mind is in bondage, the truth is hidden,
and everything is murky and unclear,
and the burdensome practice of judging
brings annoyance and weariness.
What benefit can be derived
from attachment to distinctions and separations?

If you wish to move in the One Way,
do not dislike the worlds of senses and ideas.
Indeed, to embrace them fully
is identical with true Enlightenment.
The wise person attaches to no goals
but the foolish person fetters himself or herself.
There is one Dharma, without differentiation.
Distinctions arise from the clinging needs of the ignorant.
To seek Mind with the discriminating mind
is the greatest of mistakes.

Rest and unrest derive from illusion;
with enlightenment, attachment to liking and disliking ceases.
All dualities come from ignorant inference.
They are like dreams, phantoms, hallucinations—
it is foolish to try to grasp them.
Gain and loss, right and wrong; finally abandon all such thoughts at once.

If the eye never sleeps,
all dreams will naturally cease.
If the mind makes no discriminations,
the ten thousand things
are as they are, of single essence.
To realize the mystery of this One-essence
is to be released from all entanglements.
When all things are seen without differentiation,
the One Self-essence is everywhere revealed.
No comparisons or analogies are possible
in this causeless, relationless state of just this One.

When movement stops, there is no movement—
and when no movement, there is no stopping.
When such dualities cease to exist
Oneness itself cannot exist.
To this ultimate state
no law or description applies.

For the Realized mind at one with the Way
all self-centered striving ceases.
Doubts and irresolutions vanish
and the Truth is confirmed in you.
With a single stroke you are freed from bondage;
nothing clings to you and you hold to nothing.
All is empty, clear, self-illuminating,
with no need to exert the mind.
Here, thinking, feeling, understanding, and imagination
are of no value.
In this world "as it really is"
there is neither self nor other-than-self.

To know this Reality directly
is possible only through practicing non-duality.
When you live this non-separation,
all things manifest the One, and nothing is excluded.
Whoever comes to enlightenment, no matter when or where,
Realizes personally this fundamental Source.

This Dharma-truth has nothing to do with big or small, with time and space.
Here a single thought is as ten thousand years.
Not here, not there—
but everywhere always right before your eyes.
Infinitely large and infinitely small: no difference,
for definitions are irrelevant
and no boundaries can be discerned.
So likewise with "existence" and "non-existence."

Don't waste your time in arguments and discussion
attempting to grasp the ungraspable.

Each thing reveals the One,
the One manifests as all things.
To live in this Realization
is not to worry about perfection or non-perfection.
To put your trust in the Heart-Mind is to live without separation,
and in this non-duality you are one with your Life-Source.

Words! Words!
The Way is beyond language,
for in it there is no yesterday,

no tomorrow

no today.

-Seng-Ts'an

death

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