so our system died...

Elkie · Post by **Elkie** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:10 pm

yeah, basically we run our tts through a prosound 1000 amp and a pair of intimidation int-112s, and the other night, the speakers just stopped putting out any low end?

all we get from them is treble, which obviously suggests that only the tweeters are working...

i know this probably isnt enough information, but do any of you guys have any idea what the problem could be?
we have no other gear to test either the amp or the speakers out, so we have no idea if the problem is with the amp or the speakers...
it could even possibly be the cable that runs from the mixer to the amp.

we dont think its the speakers themselves, but thats only because both speakers went at exactly the same time.

gonna go down to a local speaker shop later on, but i thought id ask on here first so i know a bit about what im talking about, heard lots of horror stories about speaker shops massively overqouting niave people such as myself...

cheers guys!

dj_march · Post by **dj_march** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:27 pm

Try plugging a CD player directly into the amp. That will tell ya whether it's the mixer or the amp.

Elkie · Post by **Elkie** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:39 pm

yeah tried that with an ipod, still no lows...

so now we know the speaker either lies with the amp or the speakers?

caeraphym · Post by **caeraphym** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:15 pm

You pay your money, you pay the price.

One amp playing full freq. 2-way?
Single cable connection: speakon still wired up right?
Presuming your running in stereo, so same lack of bass for L & R channels?
I doubt it's the cables, that would be too much of a coincidence.
I doubt it's the amp if it's still knocking out a signal, although if it's all going to those compression tweeters, watch you donn't blow the diaphragms.
I reckon:

Shitty amp running bare clipped signal to shitty 12" driver with a voice coil made from lighting filaments = no more bass for you.

Ever considered building your own boxes?
There's plenty of easy to build reflex designs that would knock the shite right out of that intimidation rubbish, try B&C or Fane reflex designs through google.
Or search speakerplans forum to your hearts delight.

Elkie · Post by **Elkie** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:31 pm

cheers for the replies guys, as you can probably tell im not too clued up about this kind of thing, so your patience is really appreciated!

yeah the amp is playing the full frequency, and the lack of bass is on both channels.

i wouldnt have a clue where to start building my own speakers, but by the sounds of things it might be worth doing, i rang a local repair shop and they quoted me £35 to look at the speakers, then id have to pay parts and labour on top of that, the guy was saying if its the drivers ill have to pay £30-40 for each one, does this sound excessive or about right?

if i was to build my own speakers, would i be able to use the chassis (right term? i mean the body, the carpeted bit) and just replace the internals?

im a student so i dont have a lot of money, so maybe building my own isnt the route for me, unless repairing them myself is a feasible option, and would be cheaper than paying someone else to do it...

i have no idea if the amp has a crossover, but the treble and bass inputs are not seperate (just one speakon cable). i havent tried the amp with another set of speakers, as these are my only speakers with speakon connections.

im really gutted, i only got these speakers at christmas, needed some decent ones for ages, ive tried my hardest to take good care of them, arrrgh stress!

cheers again guys...

Elkie · Post by **Elkie** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:23 pm

yeah it seemed pretty logical to me that it would be the amp seeing as they both went at excatly the same time...

i couldnt find any info on an internal crossover, so im assuming that they dont have one...

i thought if the speaker cones had blown, then the sound would just be all distorted and shitty?
theres no distortion, just none of that low end we all know and love...

Elkie · Post by **Elkie** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:39 pm

yeah, here you go mate

http://www.htfr.com/more-info/MR273031 the speakers

i cant find a link to the amp, but i think this is the same thing, just a newer model maybe?

http://www.maplin.co.uk/searchtemplate. ... UND%201000

thanks

Elkie · Post by **Elkie** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:56 pm

hmm, im pretty sure the amp is actually 500w.. maybe thats actually 500w per channel...

cheers though, would i be able to put bigger cones in the cabinets i have now ?
or would i need to change everything?

caeraphym · Post by **caeraphym** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:57 pm

I reckon the amps been clipping, sending out square waves, your speakers didn't like it, voice coil burnt out.

Maybe something so simple as a loose wiring has come apart from the cage to the spider on the back of the speaker. Check.

Open up the back panel, remove the touch a 9v battery against the 12" speaker cables, if the speaker moves in or out (depending on polarity) it's not the speaker, like Depone said try the crossover (again accessed through that back panel)

Check for dry/dull looking solder on all points in the speakers wiring, and crossover.

Also on that HTFR (/spits) site they show the back has the facility for normal domestic speaker cable, try running an amp that's known to work through them gently just to check.

If it's still under warranty take them back and start again with some better gear. Even cheap/secondhand hifi would be better than that lot for the money.

Elkie · Post by **Elkie** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:59 pm

yeah, this is the model i have...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0352092851

Specifications:
4Ω stereo: 2 x 400Wrms
8Ω stereo: 2 x 200Wrms

Max power: 1000Wmax @ 4ohms
Frequency range: 20Hz - 20kHz
S/N ratio: >90dB
THD: >0.5% >0.1%
Connections:
Output: 2 x Speakon
Input:
2 x quarter;inch Jack (unbalanced)

Elkie · Post by **Elkie** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:02 pm

Caeraphym wrote:I reckon the amps been clipping, sending out square waves, your speakers didn't like it, voice coil burnt out.

Maybe something so simple as a loose wiring has come apart from the cage to the spider on the back of the speaker. Check.

Open up the back panel, remove the touch a 9v battery against the 12" speaker cables, if the speaker moves in or out (depending on polarity) it's not the speaker, like Depone said try the crossover (again accessed through that back panel)

Check for dry/dull looking solder on all points in the speakers wiring, and crossover.

Also on that HTFR (/spits) site they show the back has the facility for normal domestic speaker cable, try running an amp that's known to work through them gently just to check.

If it's still under warranty take them back and start again with some better gear. Even cheap/secondhand hifi would be better than that lot for the money.

ok awesome mate, thanks a lot, ill check the speakers later when ive been into town and picked up a 9v battery!

yeah the thing is i got them off ebay, im a student and i dont have a lot of money, but they are practically brand new, they are super clean and when i picked them up from the guy they were still in the original boxes!

caeraphym · Post by **caeraphym** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:11 pm

Depone wrote:Hmmm....
Well seing that your speakers are 150 watts rms per speaker. And you amp is 1000Wmax @ 8Ω. I deduce you have blown your cones mate. Just for the record, always make sure your speakers maximum Watts are larger than your amp. This way you have no possible way of blowing them. Dont go souly on my advice, i would recommend having them looked at as im not a speaker engineer.

Nope, rule of thumb: get an amp that can run at about 1.5x the constant wattage (rms, not peak, or max) of your speakers to take into account any spikes in volume (even just for a fraction of a second) that could otherwise result in your speakers damaging your amp by trying to extract too much power from it. Amps usually more expensive to fix and buy than speakers.

And funny you found them to be 150w, I'd seen 250w rms, and 200w rms quoted when googled, lol.

Another thought, the voice coil itself could be damaged if the amp has poor damping, couldn't control the speakers excursion, vc exceeded x-max and fell off/out of alignment with the pole piece. But for that I'd suspect you'd see the damage to the dust cap and or cone quite readily.

Take 'em back, tell 'em they're shite and demand a full refund or exchange.

teqh · Post by **teqh** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:21 pm

has anyone ever built their own speakers or anything?

caeraphym · Post by **caeraphym** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:43 pm

TEQH wrote:has anyone ever built their own speakers or anything?

Yeah Airfix models plenty nuff, getz moi?

Couple of scoops on a modified jbl/fane design 10 years ago. Also a simple reflex kick bin, and mid tops. Not anything major, just boxes with holes in, and a few bits here and there, I've stayed away from stuff with too many angles and complications.

Never anything expensive either, I mean mdf and chipboard creations, rather than 13ply 18mm voidless birch. Also means when they get fucked, just rip out the drivers and burn the cab.

Simple stuff only, but fun if you take your time, have the right tools (or mates with), and measure twice cut once ALWAYS

Elkie · Post by **Elkie** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:19 pm

ok guys, so it look like i need new woofers...

so when i buy some, what do i need to look for?
if i get a pair with a higher wattage than the originals, do i need to upgrade the tweeter as well?

is it a simple thing to do?
should i aim for some woofers that are only 75% of the wattage the amp is rated at? this sounds to me like it would be more likely to blow the speakers again if the amp is too powerful, but i know very little haha.

so our system died...

so our system died...

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