St. Patricks Day

[Basstronomer]

We also like an excuse to party......

Who doesn't

[drlego]

Anything special go on with you lot for St. Patricks? I thought I would share this with you guys.

During the St. Patricks day parade here in Phoenix, a small contingent of individuals (including myself) participated in the parade and marched to show solidarity with the Irish, the Latino, and the indigenous community, describing why racism on migrants should not be tolerated. This message was aimed at a majority white population who were the audience of the parade.

Four hundred copies of this flier were distributed during this morning's annual St. Patrick's day parade in central Phoenix. The flier was handed out as a small group of 10 people marched in the parade with banners in support of migrants and regional indigenous struggles.



“Irish-American Solidarity” is a contingent of Irish-Americans and allies dedicated to solidarity and support for the indigenous people of this region, as well as the Latino immigrant communities in the greater Phoenix area. We march in this year’s St. Patrick’s Day to honor the legacy of the San Patricio Battalion, a group of Irish immigrants who escaped the Irish potato famine to the US, and ultimately became the symbols of Irish-Mexican solidarity after deserting the US army during the Mexican-American war.



Like an all too familiar contemporary immigrant narrative, the conscripted Irish soldiers faced racism from their nativist commanding officers and soldier counter parts, including denying them Sunday mass. When these new immigrant soldiers were then given orders to attack Mexican forces, they refused and deserted, instead fighting alongside the Mexican army against the US invasion. After the end of the war, many of the San Patricio were executed by the US army as traitors, but the legacy of their friendship and sacrifices resonated with so many Mexican people that they were not soon forgotten. 150 years later, it was a group of activists from Ireland who made the English language translations of statements and news from the Zapatista indigenous peasant uprising available on the internet, forcing the Mexican government to stop any repression.



The dual ugliness of the occupation by England, and the Irish potato famine made life unbearable for many poor Irish. In 1847, at the height of the famine, the Irish received a great gesture of support from the Chocktaw people, who raised $710, no small amount of money in the mid 1800s, to help starving Irish men, women, and kids. That this donation was collected after the brutal and deadly forced relocation of the Chocktaw to Oklahoma, known as the Trail of Tears, speaks volumes of the generosity of native peoples who recognized the crisis that Irish people faced.



As Irish-Americans, almost all of us are in the US as the result of England’s (continuing)colonial occupation, and yet we are also standing by as colonial attacks continue on the O’odham people, indigenous to this land we are on. Right now the O’odham face the partial destruction of their holy mountain of this area, many of us call it South Mountain, for the planned 202 freeway extension. This is the desecration of a sacred site. It was just a few years ago that there was a similar campaign in Ireland against the construction of a motorway through the valley of Tara, a world heritage site containing ancient burial grounds. This too was a desecration, and although the highway was eventually constructed, people resisted this development with civil disobedience, protest marches, and sabotage of building equipment.



We don’t need another roadway, our relatives in Ireland knew it, and our O’odham neighbors in Gila River know it too. Once again, it’s the politicians and corporations who want more progress, but what’s progressing other than the destruction of the earth and our health while they look for more profit? Is knocking 25 minutes off of a semi truck’s drive by bypassing Phoenix worth destroying part of south mountain and putting another environmental health hazard in an area where indigenous people will be most effected?



We fully extend our solidarity to the O’odham people further south in Arizona as well, to the effect that we too want an end to the militarization of Tohono O’odham lands that are divided by the US/Mexico border wall and occupied by Border Patrol and US military. We also want an end to all racist anti-immigrant laws aimed at migrants fleeing political and economic hardships. Irish history is a proud history of resistance to colonialism and oppression, and as Irish-Americans we should all be glad to carry on this tradition of solidarity and resistance to oppression.

Do you plan to lobby the American government to give back more land to Native Americans?

[drlego]

also.

Had the day off so got up late. Had a fry, planted potatoes and some fruit bushes and then had dinner and played a gig in my local to 300 pissed up Irish people. Went off like a bomb, entertaining drunk Irish people on St. Patrick's Day is like shooting fish in a barrel.

[esfandyar]

Anything special go on with you lot for St. Patricks? I thought I would share this with you guys.

During the St. Patricks day parade here in Phoenix, a small contingent of individuals (including myself) participated in the parade and marched to show solidarity with the Irish, the Latino, and the indigenous community, describing why racism on migrants should not be tolerated. This message was aimed at a majority white population who were the audience of the parade.

Four hundred copies of this flier were distributed during this morning's annual St. Patrick's day parade in central Phoenix. The flier was handed out as a small group of 10 people marched in the parade with banners in support of migrants and regional indigenous struggles.



“Irish-American Solidarity” is a contingent of Irish-Americans and allies dedicated to solidarity and support for the indigenous people of this region, as well as the Latino immigrant communities in the greater Phoenix area. We march in this year’s St. Patrick’s Day to honor the legacy of the San Patricio Battalion, a group of Irish immigrants who escaped the Irish potato famine to the US, and ultimately became the symbols of Irish-Mexican solidarity after deserting the US army during the Mexican-American war.



Like an all too familiar contemporary immigrant narrative, the conscripted Irish soldiers faced racism from their nativist commanding officers and soldier counter parts, including denying them Sunday mass. When these new immigrant soldiers were then given orders to attack Mexican forces, they refused and deserted, instead fighting alongside the Mexican army against the US invasion. After the end of the war, many of the San Patricio were executed by the US army as traitors, but the legacy of their friendship and sacrifices resonated with so many Mexican people that they were not soon forgotten. 150 years later, it was a group of activists from Ireland who made the English language translations of statements and news from the Zapatista indigenous peasant uprising available on the internet, forcing the Mexican government to stop any repression.



The dual ugliness of the occupation by England, and the Irish potato famine made life unbearable for many poor Irish. In 1847, at the height of the famine, the Irish received a great gesture of support from the Chocktaw people, who raised $710, no small amount of money in the mid 1800s, to help starving Irish men, women, and kids. That this donation was collected after the brutal and deadly forced relocation of the Chocktaw to Oklahoma, known as the Trail of Tears, speaks volumes of the generosity of native peoples who recognized the crisis that Irish people faced.



As Irish-Americans, almost all of us are in the US as the result of England’s (continuing)colonial occupation, and yet we are also standing by as colonial attacks continue on the O’odham people, indigenous to this land we are on. Right now the O’odham face the partial destruction of their holy mountain of this area, many of us call it South Mountain, for the planned 202 freeway extension. This is the desecration of a sacred site. It was just a few years ago that there was a similar campaign in Ireland against the construction of a motorway through the valley of Tara, a world heritage site containing ancient burial grounds. This too was a desecration, and although the highway was eventually constructed, people resisted this development with civil disobedience, protest marches, and sabotage of building equipment.



We don’t need another roadway, our relatives in Ireland knew it, and our O’odham neighbors in Gila River know it too. Once again, it’s the politicians and corporations who want more progress, but what’s progressing other than the destruction of the earth and our health while they look for more profit? Is knocking 25 minutes off of a semi truck’s drive by bypassing Phoenix worth destroying part of south mountain and putting another environmental health hazard in an area where indigenous people will be most effected?



We fully extend our solidarity to the O’odham people further south in Arizona as well, to the effect that we too want an end to the militarization of Tohono O’odham lands that are divided by the US/Mexico border wall and occupied by Border Patrol and US military. We also want an end to all racist anti-immigrant laws aimed at migrants fleeing political and economic hardships. Irish history is a proud history of resistance to colonialism and oppression, and as Irish-Americans we should all be glad to carry on this tradition of solidarity and resistance to oppression.

Do you plan to lobby the American government to give back more land to Native Americans?

do you plan on reading a book?

[drlego]

coming from someone who uses the phrases "Irish + Indigenous" and "thru" that hurts!

Its pretty clear from the simplistic slogans and your lack of understanding on the Hill of Tara that you are co-opting the Oirish thing to further your own cause.

Your over reaction to a question completes the picture for me.

Best of luck with your campaign, you will need it.

[.onelove.]

'England out of Ireland'

ffs the ignorance of it all actually angers me, have you ever actually met a Northern Irish person? Or is all this angsty anger directed at the English a result of pseudo Irish-American patriotic rock songs?

[drlego]

'England out of Ireland'

ffs the ignorance of it all actually angers me, have you ever actually met a Northern Irish person? Or is all this angsty anger directed at the English a result of pseudo Irish-American patriotic rock songs?

big time.

The over simplistic approach to pretty complex and advanced politics in my country to further his cause is pretty amazing.

[gnome]

Irish politics


Most unparliamentary language

[Mr Hyde]

'England out of Ireland'

ffs the ignorance of it all actually angers me, have you ever actually met a Northern Irish person? Or is all this angsty anger directed at the English a result of pseudo Irish-American patriotic rock songs?

This.

'England out of Ireland' ?!?!?....for starters, even understand the difference between England and Britain or what the complexities are with N Ireland troubles?

None of my friends from Belfast would call themselves English, and none of my friends from Cork are anti-English, its all a lot more complex than some hollywood style story with snooty evil rich English baddies oppressing the jolly irish.

Slogans like "England out of Ireland' are" very offensive, especially if you don't really know what is going on and are saying it from 1000's of miles away because you find some distant connection with one group. Even if you do know about the politics of it all can you not see ".....out of ......." pretty much would always seem racist and offensive- exactly what you claim to be standing up against?

[esfandyar]

I said my piece earlier and I refuse to argue further on the Internet. We have out opinions, I think the connections we made are valid.

[clifford_-]

I said my piece earlier and I refuse to argue further on the Internet. We have out opinions, I think the connections we made are valid.

Then you obviously have no idea what your talking about. You put something down on a banner before thinking it through, no point trying to argue your point, because is is not valid in the slightest.

[.onelove.]

I said my piece earlier and I refuse to argue further on the Internet. We have out opinions, I think the connections we made are valid.

If you're going to openly promote sectarianism and hate at least have the fucking balls to back up your stance. Don't swan about like you're some activist then pussy-foot away when you're found out for being out of your depth and utterly clueless about a situation you claim to be passionate about.

[drlego]

Guy has no clue, I would be surprised if he has ever been in Ireland never mind understanding Irish politics.

[esfandyar]

just wanted to state that this vision does not mean i support the ira... if thats what some of you think.. and it does not mean uprooting the people of northern ireland. it means that northern ireland should not be run out of london, and it is. its essentially saying to get that english power out of northern ireland. people should not have to struggle alone, i can battle injustice from the other side of the planet if i wanted to, and many people appreciated this message who were irish at the parade. that being said i dont have to know any irish to have an opinion on the english colonialism upon ireland! did you have to go to iraq to know the war was wrong??? and the irish americans i do know who have a very vast knowledge of the subject were the ones organizing the event, and i was there to support, so i have no hidden agendas with this type of action.

im not being a pussy i just dont think anything i say will change your minds. its something that happens repeatedly over the internet. if we were say sitting together and discussing these events face to face i think it would make much more sense for all of us. its the medium of communication i find to be rather difficult to interpret at times. no tone of voice, no non-verbal communication to aid our points. it just ends up sounding like bickering. and in the end, its just a difference of opinion. because i believe nothing i say to further my point will change your minds.

and please if you are so knowledgeable of north irish politics please enlighten me as i said many posts back.

its a complex issue, but the banner makes a point, and i have no regrets with writing it. it allows for an exchange so people can discuss the nuances of this matter and it is a complicated issue. thats what we are doing with this.

[noam]

b] if we were say sitting together and discussing these events face to face i think it would make much more sense for all of us.[/b] its the medium of communication i find to be rather difficult to interpret at times. no tone of voice, no non-verbal communication to aid our points.

a) i reckon if you were sat down face to face with some of the people on here, by their reactions, and things i've witnessed before i doubt 'seeing sense' is what would be happening...

b) the medium of communication on the internet draws a level playing field, you take away any outside influence and mitigating factor when you are critiquing someone's argument.

you asked someone before to 'go read a book' then you blame written, non-verbal communication for your inability to convince people of the validity of your belief??

knowing a fair few northern irish myself, and having seen a fair few 'flair ups' - a lot of them over very, very petty issues, i suggest that you take your banner to northern ireland and see directly what response you get. i think that would be more enlightening than anything anyone on here could say to you.

[esfandyar]

a) i reckon if you were sat down face to face with some of the people on here, by their reactions, and things i've witnessed before i doubt 'seeing sense' is what would be happening...

if the discussion began in that manner i doubt it would end up aggressive like you are suggesting. i have these types of discussions all the time. some end up in fights.. some dont, and id like to think this one wouldnt. i didnt mean it in any way a threat so i hope none take it like that.

b) the medium of communication on the internet draws a level playing field, you take away any outside influence and mitigating factor when you are critiquing someone's argument.

right nothing ever gets taken out of context on the internet or these boards

you asked someone before to 'go read a book' then you blame written, non-verbal communication for your inability to convince people of the validity of your belief??

i get a smart ass comment you get one reciprocated, the guy might be very well read who knows

knowing a fair few northern irish myself, and having seen a fair few 'flair ups' - a lot of them over very, very petty issues, i suggest that you take your banner to northern ireland and see directly what response you get. i think that would be more enlightening than anything anyone on here could say to you.

that would be enlightening, but the chances of me doing so is not in the cards at the time, and i demonstrated my opinion on massive banners with that written to many irish people here who know just as much of the history of colonialism in north ireland as the people who inhabit it, and it was received well. but these guys seem to know so much and i am ready to hear what they have to say.

[.onelove.]

but these guys seem to know so much and i am ready to hear what they have to say.

You're not though, you dodged all the points posed to you and made some sort of feeble retort citing you didn't want to discuss it any further.

Lets get one thing straight, I'd wager a large number of these 'Irish people' you encounter are anything but. Just because you may well be descended from an Irishman hundreds of years back does not make you one, a lot of people in Ireland actually have a lot of resentment for these what they deem as 'plastic paddies'. These Irish Americans are not at all representative of the opinion of the real residents of Ireland, all you're doing is drumming up fake patriotism.

Now, you don't necessarily have to know of any Northern Irish personally, but please be aware that an overwhelming majority WANT British rule. What gives you the right to demand their independence when it's not in the population's interest? Why do you think you know better than they do?

Seriously, promoting foreign hate and sectarianism as a way of encouraging unity in your own country is utterly repugnant.

[esfandyar]

but these guys seem to know so much and i am ready to hear what they have to say.

You're not though, you dodged all the points posed to you and made some sort of feeble retort citing you didn't want to discuss it any further.

Lets get one thing straight, I'd wager a large number of these 'Irish people' you encounter are anything but. Just because you may well be descended from an Irishman hundreds of years back does not make you one, a lot of people in Ireland actually have a lot of resentment for these what they deem as 'plastic paddies'. These Irish Americans are not at all representative of the opinion of the real residents of Ireland, all you're doing is drumming up fake patriotism.

Now, you don't necessarily have to know of any Northern Irish personally, but please be aware that an overwhelming majority WANT British rule. What gives you the right to demand their independence when it's not in the population's interest? Why do you think you know better than they do?

Seriously, promoting foreign hate and sectarianism as a way of encouraging unity in your own country is utterly repugnant.

i definitely am opposed to colonialism if thats what you mean by myself promoting foreign hate and sectarianism. and just because the majority of the population there thinks britain is a good thing, does not mean that is what everyone wants. most of the time i find strengths within minority opinions anyways. majority opinions often are those shared by the fascist or the capitalist, which is a part of this very complicated topic we are arguing about- the fact that colonialism and capitalism intertwine to erase these memories and events from the irish so no more bloodshed occurs. no surprise there.

patriotism has nothing to do with what we were trying to bring as a message. in fact all of us there would classify ourselves as very un-patriotic. so no fake patriotism there.. we were demonstrating the exploitations the colonialist english placed upon north ireland. again the banner says "AGAINST COLONIALISM" not hey irish lets get patriotic and nationalistic. unfortunately the english did murder and slaughter and rape many many irish during its colonial invasion. that should not be forgotten. not sure what to tell you besides you are confusing the message.

[.onelove.]

and just because the majority of the population there thinks britain is a good thing, does not mean that is what everyone wants. most of the time i find strengths within minority opinions anyways. majority opinions often are those shared by the fascist or the capitalist, which is a part of this very complicated topic we are arguing about- the fact that colonialism and capitalism intertwine to erase these memories and events from the irish so no more bloodshed occurs. no surprise there.

So fuck what the people living there actually want, hand them over to the rule of a republic they don't identify with? That's what you're implying. What benefit is it to Northern Ireland to separate from Britain? Facts would suggest they actually receive a whole lot more than what they provide. Your argument is utterly senseless, fighting a cause that none of the 'victims' actually want.

patriotism has nothing to do with what we were trying to bring as a message. in fact all of us there would classify ourselves as very un-patriotic. so no fake patriotism there.. we were demonstrating the exploitations the colonialist english placed upon north ireland. again the banner says "AGAINST COLONIALISM" not hey irish lets get patriotic and nationalistic. unfortunately the english did murder and slaughter and rape many many irish during its colonial invasion. that should not be forgotten. not sure what to tell you besides you are confusing the message.

No invasions were gentlemanly and without bloodshed ffs. Are you telling me the United States took Native American land without causing their own atrocities? No? Then why the fuck don't you focus your attention on that instead. What is this 'ENGLISH OUT OF IRELAND' message actually aiming to achieving, how is it even relevant to the problems you're trying to address? All it's doing is habouring resentment against a group of people for an invasion that happened hundreds of years ago.

YES, the British have done some absolutely terrible things to the Irish, no-ones denying that. But believe it or not there's no current 'occupation' of Ireland, and the Northern Irish people are quite content being under British rule. If they weren't, they'd be the first to raise an issue about it, not someone thousands of miles away with a very naive and poor understanding of the political climate.

[esfandyar]

before i even respond, do you live in Ireland or the UK? thats just a regular question. see without my tone of voice and non-verbal signals for you to decode im forced to write this so i dont sound condescending.

and just because the majority of the population there thinks britain is a good thing, does not mean that is what everyone wants. most of the time i find strengths within minority opinions anyways. majority opinions often are those shared by the fascist or the capitalist, which is a part of this very complicated topic we are arguing about- the fact that colonialism and capitalism intertwine to erase these memories and events from the irish so no more bloodshed occurs. no surprise there.

So fuck what the people living there actually want, hand them over to the rule of a republic they don't identify with? That's what you're implying. What benefit is it to Northern Ireland to separate from Britain? Facts would suggest they actually receive a whole lot more than what they provide. Your argument is utterly senseless, fighting a cause that none of the 'victims' actually want.

yeah and im saying some people who do live there do not support britain's long arm from london. that does not mean handing them over to the rule of a republic, you are simplifying a complex issue. you also say "none" which is so absolute when speaking of the "victims". there are victims who do want this. there were people fighting against that motorway in ireland being built I hope you know... as was stated in the flyer and has been documented.

patriotism has nothing to do with what we were trying to bring as a message. in fact all of us there would classify ourselves as very un-patriotic. so no fake patriotism there.. we were demonstrating the exploitations the colonialist english placed upon north ireland. again the banner says "AGAINST COLONIALISM" not hey irish lets get patriotic and nationalistic. unfortunately the english did murder and slaughter and rape many many irish during its colonial invasion. that should not be forgotten. not sure what to tell you besides you are confusing the message.

No invasions were gentlemanly and without bloodshed ffs. Are you telling me the United States took Native American land without causing their own atrocities? No? Then why the fuck don't you focus your attention on that instead. What is this 'ENGLISH OUT OF IRELAND' message actually aiming to achieving, how is it even relevant to the problems you're trying to address? All it's doing is habouring resentment against a group of people for an invasion that happened hundreds of years ago.

YES, the British have done some absolutely terrible things to the Irish, no-ones denying that. But believe it or not there's no current 'occupation' of Ireland, and the Northern Irish people are quite content being under British rule. If they weren't, they'd be the first to raise an issue about it, not someone thousands of miles away with a very naive and poor understanding of the political climate.

you are getting so pissed lol. maybe noam was right! this would have turned into a fight. anyways. i have been working with the indigenous here for quite some time my friend. you do not need worry about that. i am fully aware of what the united states has done to its original inhabitants. and no matter if its 5000 or just 5 of us, i will continue struggling with these groups of people who suffer TODAY just like the irish did from colonialism, and IMHO still do, while you will be doing nothing where you live except accepting the further cultural destruction of that land.

one of you guys said i had no balls earlier and i cant be bothered to scroll back up to see who but at least i had the balls to post my views on this topic from the start. so to sum up if you dont like it then tough shit.