Antidepressants

[Genevieve]

you've just been promoted capo; from 'random dude' to 'troll'

Nope, I'm actually asking. Because what he's saying has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

[incnic]

Oh look, people dismissing something that they don't understand. Never seen that before.

TROLL

my dog was sad, i took it for a walk

1, 2 , 3

[test_recordings]

shit i didnt realise these kinds of problems were so common

not trying to sound condescending or anything i realise its a real disorder/mental state

This state doesn't exist in some cultures though, they don't package this particular set of symptoms as a 'state' or anything like that (it didn't 'exist' in Japan until Japanese psychiatrists were trained with funding from Euro/American drug companies to recognise this particular diagnosis and it's treatement... coincidently requiring lots expensive drugs) - China even has it's own psychiatric diagnostic system to reflect what consitutes healthy living, 'disorders', and relevant treatment in Chinese culture.
The jury's also still out over what actually constitutes biochemical 'depression', e.g. is low serotonin a cause or a symptom? Another problem is that diagnostic criteria is very overly-inclusive and people can get categorised for certain criteria very easily - the newest version of the widespread Diagnostic Statistical Manual, DSM-V, had been heavily criticised for lowering the gradings needed for diagnoses to the point of large amounts of the population eligible for meeting a lot of criteria (it also got criticised for 'medicalising' rape amongst other things)...
The best thing to do is take medical advice with a pinch of salt and do your own research to check the science is sound, there are quite a few good books about to help non-professionals do this too (notable ones I have read are "Food Is Better Medicine For You Than Drugs" and "Madness Explained" - I can get both out of my local library in the UK so you might be able to, they should also be available from the British Library)

That's kinda easy for someone without a psychiatric disorder to say.

Or someone that hasn't had a disorder created that they would fit, or someone that has never been in the situation that led to a psychiatric diagnosis.

Unfortunately my mate got diagnosed as having a 'psychotic episode' while drunk, he'd been up 3 days drinking before thinking the devil was after him and he was off to hell for all the bad he'd done in his life. Bad call on the part of the psychiatrist really, he should have been labelled as suffering 'substance-induced psychosis' where medical professionals are supposed to wait until the effects subside from whatever substance an individual is under the influence of at the time of symptoms showing. Well, 2 years later after being pumped full of the highest strength antipsychotics available (the others "weren't working", no surprise as he wasn't mad in the first place) he's finally realised he's not actually mad but he's fucked because he's spent all that time in limbo under the impression he has nothing left in life and he's useless. He'll be stuck on the dole for a long time because he can't get a job that would make it worth him coming off it so in the meantime he just continues to have his injections of antipsychotics in his arse (no joke, subcutaneous administration ftw) so he can keep the place at the hostel he's at and a bit of money to do stuff with. He'll probably develop more health problems with the amount he drinks and smokes while there, most of the guys there have pot bellies from the amount they drink and the starchy food they eat and snack on because there's nought else to do. They all occasionally get to go on residential trips and whatnot but regular (i.e. once daily at least) activities would do them all far better other than leaving them to rot (not that the standard of care is bad otherwise, the property is ace and so are the carers, the residents just aren't given the opprtunity to do anything and it doesn't help their medication often makes them mong - I recommended this to Leeds Link as I think people would really appreciate it and it has been considered before apparently).

From what I've read in to the clinical diagnostic system and how it's formulated it often misses the point and confuses the symptoms with the problems. My mate was stressed leading up to this event and often religious beliefs manifest as a result, it was these religious beliefs that got labelled as the 'problem' when probably it was really the manifestation of his attempts to cope.
This is where the culturally-contingent aspect of clinical psychology and psychiatry comes about: are all Christians therefore mad, for instance? The whole of the Bible is also riddled with visions and prophecies about things that anyone coming up with today would be labelled as crackers and carted off (as an example, imagine proclaiming "I am the Son of God", even to Christians in a church service). It seems hypocritical for Christians to allow the incarceration of people acting like those who they claim to believe in and follow the teachings of, why are they any different other than that they haven't been written about yet?

Just to add, if you're interested in making a difference to mental health in the UK join the charity Mind for a chance to put your views across and help their own campaigns - they really make a difference and often help formulate governemnt policy. There might also be a community action network near you that you can join to help regulate, audit and contribute to social care in your local area (e.g. Leeds Link).

[Genevieve]

shit i didnt realise these kinds of problems were so common

not trying to sound condescending or anything i realise its a real disorder/mental state

This state doesn't exist in some cultures though, they don't package this particular set of symptoms as a 'state' or anything like that (it didn't 'exist' in Japan until Japanese psychiatrists were trained with funding from Euro/American drug companies to recognise this particular diagnosis and it's treatement... coincidently requiring lots expensive drugs) - China even has it's own psychiatric diagnostic system to reflect what consitutes healthy living, 'disorders', and relevant treatment in Chinese culture.
The jury's also still out over what actually constitutes biochemical 'depression', e.g. is low serotonin a cause or a symptom? Another problem is that diagnostic criteria is very overly-inclusive and people can get categorised for certain criteria very easily - the newest version of the widespread Diagnostic Statistical Manual, DSM-V, had been heavily criticised for lowering the gradings needed for diagnoses to the point of large amounts of the population eligible for meeting a lot of criteria (it also got criticised for 'medicalising' rape amongst other things)...
The best thing to do is take medical advice with a pinch of salt and do your own research to check the science is sound, there are quite a few good books about to help non-professionals do this too (notable ones I have read are "Food Is Better Medicine For You Than Drugs" and "Madness Explained" - I can get both out of my local library in the UK so you might be able to, they should also be available from the British Library)

That's kinda easy for someone without a psychiatric disorder to say.

Or someone that hasn't had a disorder created that they would fit, or someone that has never been in the situation that led to a psychiatric diagnosis.

Unfortunately my mate got diagnosed as having a 'psychotic episode' while drunk, he'd been up 3 days drinking before thinking the devil was after him and he was off to hell for all the bad he'd done in his life. Bad call on the part of the psychiatrist really, he should have been labelled as suffering 'substance-induced psychosis' where medical professionals are supposed to wait until the effects subside from whatever substance an individual is under the influence of at the time of symptoms showing. Well, 2 years later after being pumped full of the highest strength antipsychotics available (the others "weren't working", no surprise as he wasn't mad in the first place) he's finally realised he's not actually mad but he's fucked because he's spent all that time in limbo under the impression he has nothing left in life and he's useless. He'll be stuck on the dole for a long time because he can't get a job that would make it worth him coming off it so in the meantime he just continues to have his injections of antipsychotics in his arse (no joke, subcutaneous administration ftw) so he can keep the place at the hostel he's at and a bit of money to do stuff with. He'll probably develop more health problems with the amount he drinks and smokes while there, most of the guys there have pot bellies from the amount they drink and the starchy food they eat and snack on because there's nought else to do. They all occasionally get to go on residential trips and whatnot but regular (i.e. once daily at least) activities would do them all far better other than leaving them to rot (not that the standard of care is bad otherwise, the property is ace and so are the carers, the residents just aren't given the opprtunity to do anything and it doesn't help their medication often makes them mong - I recommended this to Leeds Link as I think people would really appreciate it and it has been considered before apparently).

From what I've read in to the clinical diagnostic system and how it's formulated it often misses the point and confuses the symptoms with the problems. My mate was stressed leading up to this event and often religious beliefs manifest as a result, it was these religious beliefs that got labelled as the 'problem' when probably it was really the manifestation of his attempts to cope.
This is where the culturally-contingent aspect of clinical psychology and psychiatry comes about: are all Christians therefore mad, for instance? The whole of the Bible is also riddled with visions and prophecies about things that anyone coming up with today would be labelled as crackers and carted off (as an example, imagine proclaiming "I am the Son of God", even to Christians in a church service). It seems hypocritical for Christians to allow the incarceration of people acting like those who they claim to believe in and follow the teachings of, why are they any different other than that they haven't been written about yet?

Just to add, if you're interested in making a difference to mental health in the UK join the charity Mind for a chance to put your views across and help their own campaigns - they really make a difference and often help formulate governemnt policy. There might also be a community action network near you that you can join to help regulate, audit and contribute to social care in your local area (e.g. Leeds Link).

What you're describing are humans errors, not faults of the system. It is awful when a patient's the victim of a misdiagnosis or mistreatment, straight up, but that doesn't mean the system's at fault. I have equally bad experiences with psychiatrists and those are the psychiatrists I refuse to ever see again and for every one that was intent on misdiagnosing me or pumping me up with drugs, I've dealt with the polar opposites, from ones that refuse to medicate in a lot of cases to ones that are hesitant to diagnose. The system isn't perfect, nothing is and human error is common, but some of these meds, some of these diagnoses have helped a tremendous number of people.

[capo ultra]

you've just been promoted capo; from 'random dude' to 'troll'

[2manynoobs]

challenge yourself to reconsider many of the emotional reactions you've hardwired yourself to make over the years--take "i'm a negative person" as the first step, maybe--and you'd be surprised how much can change by truly thinking differently. it ain't a quick fix. it ain't easy. but you'd be surprised how much of your energy follows your thought.

This, over and over again.

Drugs regardless of whether they're illegal or not will only aide to cloud your ability to think critically.

Take it from someone who has come out of the wrong side of severe depression, its all in your head. Its how you choose to act upon that will have the greatest impact.

You need someone to confide in who isn't afraid to tell you to sort yourself out and tell you when you're being a melodramatic bell-end.

The majority of the battle is between you and your sub-conscience. Learn when its trying to kick off and figure out a way of kicking it into line when it does like you would with a petulant toddler.

Every time you feel like shit and feel like the worlds getting you down, just remind yourself of the vocal line in this tune...

i hate you now

[2manynoobs]

@Faust

feeling fed up and down was also the main reason that got me into spirituality. It saved my life

Just let me give you one piece of advice: even now you've chosen to live life more balanced, in tune, when you start to feel a bit down again in the future, never give up on that balance. I think it is one of the most meaningful and true things in our lives since it has already brought a lot of joy to me and i'm sure a lot of others.

But there's still much to be learned and many changes to go though!

Have fun man!

[test_recordings]

Or someone that hasn't had a disorder created that they would fit, or someone that has never been in the situation that led to a psychiatric diagnosis.

Unfortunately my mate got diagnosed as having a 'psychotic episode' while drunk, he'd been up 3 days drinking before thinking the devil was after him and he was off to hell for all the bad he'd done in his life. Bad call on the part of the psychiatrist really, he should have been labelled as suffering 'substance-induced psychosis' where medical professionals are supposed to wait until the effects subside from whatever substance an individual is under the influence of at the time of symptoms showing. Well, 2 years later after being pumped full of the highest strength antipsychotics available (the others "weren't working", no surprise as he wasn't mad in the first place) he's finally realised he's not actually mad but he's fucked because he's spent all that time in limbo under the impression he has nothing left in life and he's useless. He'll be stuck on the dole for a long time because he can't get a job that would make it worth him coming off it so in the meantime he just continues to have his injections of antipsychotics in his arse (no joke, subcutaneous administration ftw) so he can keep the place at the hostel he's at and a bit of money to do stuff with. He'll probably develop more health problems with the amount he drinks and smokes while there, most of the guys there have pot bellies from the amount they drink and the starchy food they eat and snack on because there's nought else to do. They all occasionally get to go on residential trips and whatnot but regular (i.e. once daily at least) activities would do them all far better other than leaving them to rot (not that the standard of care is bad otherwise, the property is ace and so are the carers, the residents just aren't given the opprtunity to do anything and it doesn't help their medication often makes them mong - I recommended this to Leeds Link as I think people would really appreciate it and it has been considered before apparently).

From what I've read in to the clinical diagnostic system and how it's formulated it often misses the point and confuses the symptoms with the problems. My mate was stressed leading up to this event and often religious beliefs manifest as a result, it was these religious beliefs that got labelled as the 'problem' when probably it was really the manifestation of his attempts to cope.
This is where the culturally-contingent aspect of clinical psychology and psychiatry comes about: are all Christians therefore mad, for instance? The whole of the Bible is also riddled with visions and prophecies about things that anyone coming up with today would be labelled as crackers and carted off (as an example, imagine proclaiming "I am the Son of God", even to Christians in a church service). It seems hypocritical for Christians to allow the incarceration of people acting like those who they claim to believe in and follow the teachings of, why are they any different other than that they haven't been written about yet?

Just to add, if you're interested in making a difference to mental health in the UK join the charity Mind for a chance to put your views across and help their own campaigns - they really make a difference and often help formulate governemnt policy. There might also be a community action network near you that you can join to help regulate, audit and contribute to social care in your local area (e.g. Leeds Link).

What you're describing are humans errors, not faults of the system. It is awful when a patient's the victim of a misdiagnosis or mistreatment, straight up, but that doesn't mean the system's at fault. I have equally bad experiences with psychiatrists and those are the psychiatrists I refuse to ever see again and for every one that was intent on misdiagnosing me or pumping me up with drugs, I've dealt with the polar opposites, from ones that refuse to medicate in a lot of cases to ones that are hesitant to diagnose. The system isn't perfect, nothing is and human error is common, but some of these meds, some of these diagnoses have helped a tremendous number of people.

Ahh yeah you're right on that, though medication tends to be more effective for symptom-specific uses than for general diagnoses. Have you read up on the logic of how they are applied though? It goes along the lines 'it makes symptoms disappear and therefore not a problem', though when you consider that they never claim to 'fix' the problem or sometimes not even have an accurate idea of the mechanism of action (I'm not even joking, most anti-psychotic medicines detail in their guidelines of use that it isn't known how they work - I have seen this with my own eyes!) and often there isn't a concrete procedure for resolving medication use it makes you wonder why the hell the mental health system in a lot of countries isn't looking for more effective treatment rather than what is essentially a long-term crutch or straightjacket.
This is really shown up by the fact that the more 'developed' a country is the less likely you are to recover from mental illness, the way people are classified and subsequently treated can really make them think that they're physically ill and there's nothing they can do about - they become passive 'patients' rather than 'service users' (this is the UK term for people accessing mental health services and such like to reflect their autonomy and agency) and so are less likely to be involved in their own recovery which can have serious long-term consequences if they start to believe they can't cope on their own etc. Probably this passive, receptive role is good for some people but there's a fair bit of research to suggest that generally it's better to treat people as being knowledgeable and involving them with co-ordinating their own treatment. On that note, there is a bulletin in the British Psychological Society's magazine 'The Psychologist' about a public consultation with the NHS about how best to offer mental health treatment and it was decided that 'good basic services' would be most effective as often people accessing treatment are not in a position to make effective decisions themselves initially (though I think secondary care is still an important consideration this does make sense to get things right in the first place).

Do you have any particular ideas that you, as a service user, would like to see in your experience of your health services?

[jaydot]

In my opinion, if you cut out the self hatred then you're closer to recovery. Insecurities, where every little thing even if it's one and small, gets you down and manifests itself as self hatred (I have a conscience which tells me how shit I am)
Fuck the rest of them, you are you and you are unique and amazing. Stand in front of the mirror and tell yourself this when you're down. Do not let spiteful people hate on you or make you think different, it most probably boils down to jealousy so you msut be doing something right.