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neonmansion wrote:I don't understand why you guys react that way? I really, honestly, for serious now, lets be real here, man to man, don't.. understand... it.

All I'm doing is arguing against the common trope that religious extremists are the same as "atheist extremists". Its such a terrible argument and its so stupid that people actual buy into it. Athiesm doesn't kill anyone. It doesn't indoctrinate anyone or impose beliefs. Stalinism might. Nazism might. Islam might. Theses are positive belief systems that all think they are the sole owners of truth.

How you can confuse that with scientific inquiry is beyond me! How can you claim that not believing in Zeus or Jesus or Muhammad is the same thing as supernatural subjective beliefs that convince people to fly into planes? I'm sorry if i CAPITALIZE some words but its frustrating how willfully ignorant people can be.

yeah but who gives a fuck? i guarantee you will not convert anyone with these arguments so why waste time getting wound up by trying to explain them?

just tell us if you wear fedoras

In reverse order to last posts.

Just because I'm an athiest doesn't mean I fit into a stereotype your feeble imagination has generated. However, your persistent implication of my wearing fedoras Does make you a prick. You aren't as funny as you think you are BTW.

And to the person with a civil post. I honestly don't know. I can't help but desperately cling to the idea that people will be persuaded by rationality. Unfortunately most of these people are emotionally motivated rather than intellectually no matter what they say. But yeah.. i'm 99.9% wasting my time here. I'm all too aware of that.. ugh

so you DO wear fedoras?

yes. if you really want me to

neonmansion wrote:I don't understand why you guys react that way? I really, honestly, for serious now, lets be real here, man to man, don't.. understand... it.

All I'm doing is arguing against the common trope that religious extremists are the same as "atheist extremists". Its such a terrible argument and its so stupid that people actual buy into it. Athiesm doesn't kill anyone. It doesn't indoctrinate anyone or impose beliefs. Stalinism might. Nazism might. Islam might. Theses are positive belief systems that all think they are the sole owners of truth.

How you can confuse that with scientific inquiry is beyond me! How can you claim that not believing in Zeus or Jesus or Muhammad is the same thing as supernatural subjective beliefs that convince people to fly into planes? I'm sorry if i CAPITALIZE some words but its frustrating how willfully ignorant people can be.

We don't 'deal' with "religious extremists" who fly planes into our homes. We deal with "religious extremists" who won't shut the fuck up about their shitty beliefs, and we also deal with even more atheist extremists who preach THEIR shitty ass beliefs.

There are plenty of institutions that have killed more people than any religion. And most religiously grounded murder and terrorism in this day and age is in response to an a Western foreign policy that is specifically targeted against muslims in support of the very anti-Islamic state of Israel. We wouldn't have had 9/11 if it wasn't for the West fighting a fucking religion. And in most cases all through-out history, religion was the excuse people went to war and killed, not the reason they did it.

People react this way because we used to say the same things when we were 13 and we quickly got over it when we learned that "religious irrationality" is just one of many fucking ways that people can be 'irrational' and we're not trying to be edgy for singling out religion itself.

Reverb's funny though.

Genevieve, thanks for showing me that the foundation for your ridiculous comments is your conspiracy theory, anti-Bush, multi-culturalist mindset. Just finished reading a Chris Hedges book? Or was it Noam Chomsky. Its also funny that your main gripe is that you have to "hear" my beliefs. Like your so oppressed and surrounded by militant atheists. Poor you! You really think religion isn't the problem in the middle-east? Did you know that if you correct for literacy suicide bombing approval goes up? People who believe that terrorists are results of US foreign policy are just as idealogical as the Right wing Christians supporting the policies they oppose. It's all so poetic.

You want me to "shut the fuck up" yet you perfectly prepared to write multi-paragraph responses to me. Why not just click on another thread?? You are the type of person that goes to a skrillex video and writes hate comments. Just go read Noam Chomsky and listen to some generic dark dub or some shit. Keep your generically average mindset away from me.

You just can't handle my supreme socialist left-wing logic.

you suck as a person. im sure the ladies love you.

you have no idea, reverb

Michael Scheuer is right, neonmason is wrong and he mad cuz he friendzoned.

i don't even know how to respond to this thread, too much Logic and Reason

just shut up neonmansion

I want you to look at this list and tell me that all these people are idiots for believing in some sort of divine creator.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deists

If you can make a well formed argument, I will no longer doubt you. Until then, shut up. You're arguing WITH agnostics and atheists here. You don't need to preach, because we all have the same or similar belief, sans the fact that you think you cannot be rational and think there is some sort of creator at the same time. Again, there are people who don't believe in god, but blindly believe in ridiculous pseudo-sciences and conspiracy theories, but to your logic, they are rational people if they downplay theism. Do you not see how that is irrational? Do you really not see that, in reality, you can rationalize damn near anything in your own mind and that you will always be irrational to the outsider? And most importantly, do you not see how your argument is just as annoying as "god exists because I say so and you're a sinner"?

neonmansion wrote:Genevieve, thanks for showing me that the foundation for your ridiculous comments is your conspiracy theory, anti-Bush, multi-culturalist mindset. Just finished reading a Chris Hedges book? Or was it Noam Chomsky. Its also funny that your main gripe is that you have to "hear" my beliefs. Like your so oppressed and surrounded by militant atheists. Poor you! You really think religion isn't the problem in the middle-east? Did you know that if you correct for literacy suicide bombing approval goes up? People who believe that terrorists are results of US foreign policy are just as idealogical as the Right wing Christians supporting the policies they oppose. It's all so poetic.

You want me to "shut the fuck up" yet you perfectly prepared to write multi-paragraph responses to me. Why not just click on another thread?? You are the type of person that goes to a skrillex video and writes hate comments. Just go read Noam Chomsky and listen to some generic dark dub or some shit. Keep your generically average mindset away from me.

You need to simmer down mate, no one is even arguing for the existence of god here. Lucifer on the other hand...

kidshuffle wrote:I want you to look at this list and tell me that all these people are idiots for believing in some sort of divine creator.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deists

If you can make a well formed argument, I will no longer doubt you. Until then, shut up. You're arguing WITH agnostics and atheists here. You don't need to preach, because we all have the same or similar belief, sans the fact that you think you cannot be rational and think there is some sort of creator at the same time aka ILLOGICAL THOUGHT. Again, there are people who don't believe in god, but blindly believe in ridiculous pseudo-sciences and conspiracy theories, but to your logic, they are rational people. Do you not see how that is irrational? Do you really not see that, in reality, you can rationalize damn near anything in your own mind and that you will always be irrational to the outsider?

well i cant speak for neonmansion, but like i said earlier, i dont really think there's anything wrong with deism or other beliefs such as pantheism. personally i consider myself an absolute atheist in regards to the kind of gods put forth by most organized religions, like the abrahamic god, but when it comes to deism/pantheism/etc i'm agnostic. and i think most people who call themselves "atheist" also feel this way

"Deism does not ascribe any specific qualities to a deity beyond non-intervention."
"accompanied with the rejection of revelation and authority as a source of religious knowledge."

it doesn't really make any ridiculous or absurd claims, just sort of says there's some sort of supernatural power that gave birth to the universe

I'm more of an apatheist.

Obv I'm an "agnostic" (on any god, including the christian one, but when you open up the possibility of a 'god', then you're creating the possibilities of billions of different gods, so the assumption that it has to be the 'christian god' seems like a bigger leap of faith than the idea of A god itself)

But if there is something we would call a 'god' out there, then it should be supernatural by definition, and therefore completely outside of our realm of existence. Basically, even if it is 'real', we evolved in a natural world to perceive natural phenomena. So god can be both real and not real at the same time. Real in the sense that it exists, not real in the sense that what we can't perceive it. And if it lies outside of our senses, I think it's also incomprehensible to us. Probably doesn't affect us either.

This is why I don't think that faith and science are necessarily opposed to each other. They're not opposites, they're two different fields that can be practiced side by side. Like being both a tennis player and a fan of beer.

Not meant to be 'deep' or 'thought provoking', just my take on the whole thing.

Genevieve wrote: This is why I don't think that faith and science are necessarily opposed to each other. They're not opposites, they're two different fields that can be practiced side by side. Like being both a tennis player and a fan of beer.

Exactly.

Just don't spill any damn beer on tennis shoes namsayin

The paradox is: Huygens believed in 'god', but he actually was god.
Goes to show how for you can get by believing in yourself.