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Also MIDI wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the meeting of the heads of a number of massive synth companies

hubb wrote:

wolf89 wrote:

hubb wrote:

RKM wrote:yeah exile was made in a "house", but with thousands of pounds of recording equipment in a mobile studio, i guess abbey road was made in a "house" too

Yeah I know, but try to get Keith Richard who was a millionaire at that point to sit in a studio. You can't know how much that would cost. And that is part of that industry, to not ask questions but just pay out of their ass. Same with mastering it's just something they expect to pay for a lot of the time because they have people that earn a living from doing that.

You guys are just reading to much into me joking about being a hippy.
Which is fine.

Mastering isn't that at all. I personally know a couple incredibly good mastering engineers.If you were to talk to them for five minutes about sound you'd feel like an idiot. It's not a question of throwing money at someone because it's an accepted job.

Also can you not hear differences between a well mastered record and one that isn't? Or do you even know anything about the physical process of how a record plays and that to get a track to even cut to vinyl there's a shitload you need to know about?

Mastering isn't that at all.
It's not exclusively, absolutely or only that, and how could anyone involved with sound think that?
BUT it is also that, because it's an intrinsic system of dependance between the different parts of prodcution -that everyone involved in music ought to question from time to time.
I've had releases on vinyl and I dont see you as more of an authority on the subject, than my own experience btw.

You've released on vinyl? Well could you have mastered, cut and manufactured it all yourself? Could you fuck. Someone was paid to do it.

Proving my point exactly.

stick a few waves and ozone plugins on the master imo

Then consider that every record you've bought that sounds any good cost money to make and you wouldn't have them if music had no business aspects to it at all.

It's your ability to think outside of strictly black and white or the aboslute, that is the issue now. If we were using that sort of logic on your way of thinking, it would mean we should just pay people in entertainment a shit load of money and then fragile artist psyches would just present amazing records on top of each other to no end.

wolf89 wrote:

SignalRecon wrote:

wolf89 wrote:
Also can you not hear differences between a well mastered record and one that isn't?

You mean one that's harsh limited with 0 dynamic range and un-naturaly EQ'd vs one that is shit and not loud with tons of gay headroom?

There's a lot more to it than that for fuck's sake.

Also again everyone is ignoring the fact you're on a forum for a genre that was built on people playing vinyl and vinyl can't exist without a mastering engineer who knows how to cut to vinyl and a shitload of money's worth of equipment.

Mastering is only putting ozone on something and choosing hip hop bass boost preset and cranking the saussice. Stereo Imaging and frequency balance are a myth. Anything else pertaining to audio theory that doesn't equate "push til red" is superfluous and has no place in real music.

hubb wrote:

Then consider that every record you've bought that sounds any good cost money to make and you wouldn't have them if music had no business aspects to it at all.

It's your ability to think outside of strictly black and white or the aboslute, that is the issue now. If we were using that sort of logic on your way of thinking, it would mean we should just pay people in entertainment a shit load of money and then fragile artist psyches would just present amazing records on top of each other to no end.

No I'm saying I work for a record label and recording studio,I'm friends with promoters, I work at live events, I'm friends with mastering engineers and prodcers who have made it into a full time job and that the idea that the music anyone on here listens to would be able to exist if no-one did anything in music for money is completely impossible.

wolf89 wrote:Also MIDI wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the meeting of the heads of a number of massive synth companies

See this is a great example but it's just not anymore correct than me saying that a record was done in a house.

Nah it is really though. It was a business driven development and wouldn't have been universally adopted if it wasn't implement by the leaders of the industry.

would be able to exist

yeah agreed .

but ive said time and time again that im just airing the possibility of an alternative way of doing things. that would mean a lot would be different but maybe better. i see shitloads of myths that relate to both production and mastering, particularly because it can be a thing without being especially musical. like the promotion can when doing nights. it all takes focus away imo.

there are rules that you have to know, like mono lowend or whatever not disputing that, but you would learn that just by producing for a bit imo

wolf89 wrote:Nah it is really though. It was a business driven development and wouldn't have been universally adopted if it wasn't implement by the leaders of the industry.

keith wouldn't have sat in the studio or the studio didn't accept heroin or whatever

its still the same kind of argument dude

You're living in a fucking fantasy world mate. Thats it. This isn't even about the "rules" of production it's about the simple fact that you wouldn't be able to make records if no one got paid. Musical instruments and equipment would disappear and clubs would close. Again unless your idea of people playing home made guitars to 10 people is this "good alternative" then there must be money involved in music. People making funktion one speakers for a hobby is like saying that someone would build everyone cars for fun.

hubb wrote:

wolf89 wrote:Nah it is really though. It was a business driven development and wouldn't have been universally adopted if it wasn't implement by the leaders of the industry.

keith wouldn't have sat in the studio or the studio didn't accept heroin or whatever

its still the same kind of argument dude

Yeah but whether it's a studio or a house it's still full of a a good few years of an average annual salary's worth of musical equipment.

Besides I was saying that in relation to the development and usage of MIDI. That it was built on a foundation of the industry leaders deciding it was needed.

Jamie do you think its possible to make and a really good EP ready for release all by 1 person and all ITB?

it's physically impossible the computer would shut down when you get to the mastering

"wolf89"

You're living in a fucking fantasy world mate

.

I hope so i'm in the busyness of making music

That's it.

No, thats your way of twisting words in a conversation to further make the point, that everyone has to be paid the same for music to exist at all. So I've taken the same liberty and just twisted your words

This isn't even about the "rules" of production it's about the simple fact that you wouldn't be able to make the very same records if no one got paid exactly the same amount of money. And inflation within the music industry does not exist and any money spent there is super cost efficient.

I just expect humans to make great records under almost any circumstance.
I'm sorry but it's like eco-friendly floral arrangements form at the tip of my fingers when I type.

People making funktion one speakers for a hobby is like saying that someone would build everyone cars for fun.

Yeah I can see the analogy was a bit poor, but it wasn't an analogy.
There's literally people that are exclusively into having great speakers and just want to use them and don't care about music in that context.
I only really mentioned it as a cheap alternative to an expensive club rental or as inspiration, you know? It's something we've done when setting up gigs.

shit's getting serious now, posting in bold

Yeah I'm shit at quoting, sorry

I wouldn't ever play a gig where I had to put in work BEFORE I even get there.

I ain't going sell tickets or hand out flyers or what ever just for a set. I'd rather just have a mix in doors with the boys with a few beers and stream it. We'd probably get more listeners than 1st/2nd set at a club anyway.

Playing 1st and 2nd set ain't going to get you nothing apart from a name on a flyer and you can promote yourself as a DJ twenty times better with a radio show, blog support/ facebook page support than doing your local circuit for no money and a few hours work before you even play.

I don't mind playing for travel and enough beer to get at least get a bit pissed. The tenacity of a promoter who even books people for the early sets, that should be done by your mates/residents until people start ramming the place THEN you get your guests to play just out of courtesy for them deciding to you play your night - any tnuc with a grand can throw a club night, the power needs to come back to the man with the record bag.

wolf89 wrote:Nah it is really though. It was a business driven development and wouldn't have been universally adopted if it wasn't implement by the leaders of the industry.

I feel like SOMEBODY could, and would, have done it.