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far right nationalist parties have been on the rise in nearly all of europe, unfortunately i think this attack is gonna accelerate that even further

Phigure wrote:far right nationalist parties have been on the rise in nearly all of europe, unfortunately i think this attack is gonna accelerate that even further

word, my trifecta for next French presidential election: Sarkozy (who couldnt resist to seize this occasion to make a speech and come back in the media)/Valls/Le Pen

basically its going to be "pick a fascist"

I don't agree with far right groups like that, but do you think there is a lack of openness and head-on discussion of those guys' arguments and concerns (which are increasingly popular) in society? Like I think the islamicization of Europe shit is mostly nonsense (especially when its coming from reactionary americunts that don't have a clue but have a massive agenda and prejudice in general) but there's a lot of TV debates etc where EDL members just get shouted down in this angry mob way that has nothing to do with actual debate and has everything to do with a crowd gassing each other up to feel righteous.

Or maybe that's lending too much credence towards those guys, which a hell of a lot of the time are str8 racists?

I mean, centre-left non racists in the media can sit around (maybe rightfully) condemning those parties all they like, but if loads of people are flocking to those parties then perhaps the discussion needs to change a little bit? Can the discussion change without actually moving the politics closer to far-right?

Know what I mean?

Harkat wrote:I don't agree with far right groups like that, but do you think there is a lack of openness and head-on discussion of those guys' arguments and concerns (which are increasingly popular) in society?

Absolutely. I'm probably a sickening wet lefty liberal to a lot of those guys, but yeah, the fact (or perception) that people feel they can't speak out on a matter will always lead to extreme action. Also, if people that hold bigoted views or whatever can't enter discussions, then their views can never be challenged. They'll just stick to discussing them in the echo-chamber of pubs, etc with their own mates who likely hold the same views, and they'll just become more and more entrenched. IMO, society gains nothing from deciding something can't be spoke about. It's very easy to say "you're wrong, you shouldn't be allowed to say that", but countless good has happened through history by somebody saying it anyway.

"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll fight to the death to defend your right to say it" - Adolf Hilter 1939

faultier wrote:

exfox wrote: according to police reports, both guys have been trained in Syria

so Mossad blackops then? interestingly this comes a month after French Assemblée Nationale voted for Palestine's status as a state to be recognized in UN

also according to police reports, after having executed a commando style attack with automatic machine guns in the heart of Paris, one of them conveniently forgets his ID card in the vehicle they abandoned during their escape


yeah, right

inb4 they are never caught or shot down during their "arrest", in any case you best believe these guys will never stand trial

Dude, I am glad you are here, because you never fail to turn something disgustingly grim into a source of entertainment for me.

the worry is that its too far the other way for islam

or at least it seems to be at times

criticise catholisism, judaism, christianity etc

all fine feel free

but islam seems to be more taboo than other religions and if you speak out against them you get labelled islamaphobic

soronery wrote:but islam seems to be more taboo than other religions and if you speak out against them you get labelled islamaphobic

Does seem that way in some places. I can only speak for the UK here, but Asian folk in general have gotta be the most common focus of racism, and 99% of Muslims are Asian, I guess, so it can come across that rather than legitimately criticising Islam, you're actually just being racist (which I've no doubt some people are).

faultier wrote:

Phigure wrote:far right nationalist parties have been on the rise in nearly all of europe, unfortunately i think this attack is gonna accelerate that even further

word, my trifecta for next French presidential election: Sarkozy (who couldnt resist to seize this occasion to make a speech and come back in the media)/Valls/Le Pen

basically its going to be "pick a fascist"

walter benjamin said "behind every fascism, there is a failed revolution"

so i guess you can blame hollande for it

Harkat wrote:I don't agree with far right groups like that, but do you think there is a lack of openness and head-on discussion of those guys' arguments and concerns (which are increasingly popular) in society? Like I think the islamicization of Europe shit is mostly nonsense (especially when its coming from reactionary americunts that don't have a clue but have a massive agenda and prejudice in general) but there's a lot of TV debates etc where EDL members just get shouted down in this angry mob way that has nothing to do with actual debate and has everything to do with a crowd gassing each other up to feel righteous.

Or maybe that's lending too much credence towards those guys, which a hell of a lot of the time are str8 racists?

I mean, centre-left non racists in the media can sit around (maybe rightfully) condemning those parties all they like, but if loads of people are flocking to those parties then perhaps the discussion needs to change a little bit? Can the discussion change without actually moving the politics closer to far-right?

Know what I mean?

I think you don't quite understand how dire the situation is in France: Contradictory debate is dead and buried. Books, writers and academics are shunned massively by journalists who haven't read them and use ad hominem to try and shoot them down, because the overwhelming leftist majority in politics and medias think that theirs is the right way and that debate is a waste of time. They're crying over free speech right now, but make no mistake, they've been strangling it for more than a decade.

That's part of the reason fascist ideas are rising in France and Europe really: if people don't get a platform from the authorities to express their concerns , they'll go to Le Pen

Charb wrote:I have no kids, no wife, no car, no credit. This may be a bit pompous what I'm saying, but I prefer to die standing than live on my knees.

lad

garethom wrote: Dude, I am glad you are here, because you never fail to turn something disgustingly grim into a source of entertainment for me.

oh well, thanks for acknowledging me anyway

soronery wrote: criticise catholisism, judaism, christianity etc

funny you should say that because anyone that's been in france these last years will tell you that its pretty much open season on muslims since 9/11 with media pundits such as Eric Zemmour openly calling for civil war against french muslims (a la "they are a threat to western civilization,etc"), while on the other hand every criticism of Israel in France is being shut down and labeled as antisemitism...

faultier wrote:

garethom wrote: Dude, I am glad you are here, because you never fail to turn something disgustingly grim into a source of entertainment for me.

oh well, thanks for acknowledging me anyway

Come on though man, Mossad black ops? It seems you think that Israel have a hand in EVERY event that happens in the world today. Is it really so hard to believe that people get so pissed off because of problems or perceived problems in the muslim world that they're willing to do this? Have you got any sort of evidence that this was a Mossad attack?

Tbh, not even sure why I'm asking, because 9 times out of 10, what will come next is a link to a blogspot page which will be used as a "source" then if anybody doubts that, then a suggestion of a mainstream media cover up will be pulled out the bag.

^^ to be completely fair, a lot of israel's critics choose very poor wording which makes them sound like antisemites - which, make no mistake, a lot of them are aswell. also big up Eric Zemmour for having gained incredible influence by sitting on a table with some braindead idiots. is On N'est Pas Couchés still running? still with that glass-wearing twat?

I'm not too familiar with Valls, but what exactly makes him a fascist?

i don't have any proof

but, yes i do think that Israel has a hands in this whole ISIS bullshit, and from there it's not that far-fetched to think they could have had a hand in this as well
also clearly the whole "luckily we found the ID card of one of the perps in the abandoned vehicle" seems a bit too convenient for my likings

amazing this habit that jihadists have to leave their passports/id cards on the scene no?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satam_al-S ... _discovery

don't get me wrong i'm not denying this is a tragedy, and ultimately, irrelevant of who's behind these attacks, their goal was to sway emotions and to increase (already existing) tensions and the amount of stupidity i see in the reactions goes to show that they succeeded

#KillAllMuslims? seriously?

also on Valls being a fascist, among other stuff look up his declarations on Roms (gypsies), good stuff

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/wo ... ance-.html

early reports of bomb blast outside a kebab shop near a mosque in northern france

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ttack.html

policewoman shot dead today in seperate attack in paris

no link with charlie hebdo attack yet mentioned

soronery wrote:http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/wo ... ance-.html

early reports of bomb blast outside a kebab shop near a mosque in northern france

please somebody make it stop before this shit propels out of proportion.

ive seen more mentions on twitter today of a muslim family being attacked in their car somewhere in paris late last night but cant find any confirmed links

jrkhnds wrote:

soronery wrote:http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/wo ... ance-.html

early reports of bomb blast outside a kebab shop near a mosque in northern france

please somebody make it stop before this shit propels out of proportion.

Exactly, quite worried this could escalate from various factions fairly quickly. When you think about it also, it's just not remotely clear what the attackers were hoping to achieve by doing this as it sure as hell won't stop publications of the Charlie Hebdo kind