can you see jesus?

hugh · Post by **hugh** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:12 pm

so you are basically asking what is the meaning of life. Well of course science has no explanation for that because, this might be a shock to you, there is no fucking purpose. We as humans happened as a freak accident. Our intellgence grew with the sizes of our social groups along with vastly improved diet due to the joys of cooking. Then we started to wander how things worked. At first we had no fuckin clue so we said some guy called god did it.
Now we are only relatively starting to understand what's going on in the universe around us and why. I for one am very happy to embrace that cos believe me, it's gonna get man and humanity a fucking mile further than sitting on our arses hoping some uninterested imaginary figure is going to give enough of a fuck to save us.
I really dont understand why you are constantly meandering and dodging with your points.
In fact as a bit of a satirical point, I put it to you that I invented the universe in a previous life through re incarnation and am in fact an all powerful deity who simply chooses to never use his powers to help myself or those around me. I'd like you to prove that wrong, cos when i die i can simply say i chose to.
For me this would be just as fathomable as some kind of God character, because to me there is one massive difference for believing in science and religion. There has NEVER been any evidence of god. EVER. The best you get is a picture of god's beard on a peice of fuckin toast. I know if i was God i would be shooting fireballs of wrath from the sky if anyone even fuckin questioned me.
i suggest you stop sitting around wondering why you exist and just get on with existing. I still don't understand your point though, are you just trying to say that although you believe that religion and science are good if applied in a good way? Because that still has nothing to do with the argument. science can be proven whereas god cannot. this is my final word on it.

maori-nick · Post by **maori-nick** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:51 pm

Hugh in future can you condense your replies to no more then 3 lines so i can be bothered to read what you put.

Lulz at being lazy.

bellybelle · Post by **bellybelle** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:37 pm

Hugh wrote:so you are basically asking what is the meaning of life. Well of course science has no explanation for that because, this might be a shock to you, there is no fucking purpose. We as humans happened as a freak accident. Our intellgence grew with the sizes of our social groups along with vastly improved diet due to the joys of cooking. Then we started to wander how things worked. At first we had no fuckin clue so we said some guy called god did it.
Now we are only relatively starting to understand what's going on in the universe around us and why. I for one am very happy to embrace that cos believe me, it's gonna get man and humanity a fucking mile further than sitting on our arses hoping some uninterested imaginary figure is going to give enough of a fuck to save us.
I really dont understand why you are constantly meandering and dodging with your points.
In fact as a bit of a satirical point, I put it to you that I invented the universe in a previous life through re incarnation and am in fact an all powerful deity who simply chooses to never use his powers to help myself or those around me. I'd like you to prove that wrong, cos when i die i can simply say i chose to.
For me this would be just as fathomable as some kind of God character, because to me there is one massive difference for believing in science and religion. There has NEVER been any evidence of god. EVER. The best you get is a picture of god's beard on a peice of fuckin toast. I know if i was God i would be shooting fireballs of wrath from the sky if anyone even fuckin questioned me.
i suggest you stop sitting around wondering why you exist and just get on with existing. I still don't understand your point though, are you just trying to say that although you believe that religion and science are good if applied in a good way? Because that still has nothing to do with the argument. science can be proven whereas god cannot. this is my final word on it.

I haven't dodged a damned thing. What I HAVE been saying is that BOTH spheres attempt to browbeat people who don't allow their lives to be defined by strict parameters into one decision or the next.

I have also NEVER said what I believed. If anything, I've been quite forth-coming with the idea that I do not ascribe to ANY one thing. That I allow for multiplicity in my life, as do many people.

My problem, and I will state it succinctly, is that I do not believe either has the right or even the proof necessary to substantiate that either one is the sole right way to think or function. It is because both are so determined to make followers of people that I tend to gravitate away from extremists and allow for experience to prove to me what is true.

I WILL NOT let a scientist or a religious fundamentalist bully me into having an opinion that is not flexible. Especially when neither can answer concretely the more esoteric questions I have in my life. That's pretty plainly spoken.

I live my life quite fine outside of being forced into any specific way of thinking. It is my acceptance of the validity of both that has enriched my life. I don't need Scientists or Zealots to give me any data or personally proven testimony. And if I want to give my life more meaning than just existence and passing on genetic information, why does it bother you so much? Why is there a need to discredit? Is that really more preferable? Would it be better to be merely functioning? If that is what makes you feel good about your existence, so be it. I don't see things that way. It doesn't make me any less anything to believe in God if I do or any less anything to not believe in God if I do. But I sure as hell won't let anyone tell me what to think.

As many facts and figures as a scientist can provide me, a zealot can also provide me with data and accounts and etc. to prove they are also right. Both of them can. Scientists can't account for stigmata and zealots can't account for dinosaur bones. Both are real, correct? So what do I do? Join one faith and dismiss the other. Ahhh but which one? Facts that satisfy you might not satisfy me....

Then what?

Again.....why is it absolutely necessary for the two to be mutually exclusive? If it gives you comfort to live within the paradigm established by the Scientific community, wonderful. Have an awesome life functioning and believing what you do. If it gives you comfort to believe in God and live within the paradigm established by the Religious community, wonderful. Have an awesome life working towards an ethereal goal and believe in what you do. As for me, I will allow for both to show and reveal to me the secrets of the Universe and clues about how the world works. For both, there will always be exceptions. For scientists, the exceptions are psychology and biology. For zealots, the exceptions can be the proper place of faith healing, meditation, etc.

Without the backstory of world wars, which are manufactured by humans; how are they now different in approach? Just look at this thread. How many entries have been people defending their faith (before you include me, please note again that I do not practice or belong to anything)? Now...how many people have vociferously defended their faith in Science? I haven't even seen one person stand up for the Judeo-Christian faith. How is the comparison not obvious? In this thread alone, there was this need to dominate by Science. Please point out how this is any different from sitting with someone who believes strongly in Christ who will repeatedly tell you you're wrong and this is why. The method? Nope, not different at all. The information presented then? The facts matter more to the believer because they confirm why the believer believes what they do. If they didn't believe it, they wouldn't be telling you. Do either have all the answers required to satisfy enough to convert? Thats only for the individual to decide. Who wins? Is there really a value judgment assigned? Only in the eyes of the person making the statement. If I disagree with a fundamentalist, tsk tsk they will pray for my soul even though I'm going to hell. If I disagree with a scientist, tsk tsk to be so stupid. But this only reveals the heart of the person making the assessment and doesn't reflect on me in either case.

Why does one or the other have to be right? Or wrong? Why can't people be allowed to incorporate both in their lives successfully without having to make this all or nothing decision?

The Scientist/Zealot: Because I'm right.

And then we're back to square one. *carouselsigh*

psyolopher · Post by **psyolopher** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:38 pm

I think that none should have a power of ther other.....thus everybody lives in peace and harmony!
awwwww

ashley · Post by **ashley** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:42 pm

tl;dr

elbe · Post by **elbe** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:49 pm

sorry ppl. can't be arsed to read all you're replies...

... that picture is great, made me larf

<---see.

hugh · Post by **hugh** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:23 am

@ bellybelle - i'm not trying to dismiss your way of viewing things as wrong, i'm a very liberal person myself and would never discriminate against someone or look down on them, but I have to question how people can lump the two in the same box at all, so I guess on some sort of level I actually agree. I don't believe religion and science should have any effect on the other, but i find it hard to believe people have faith in some aspects of one thing and some of the other. The more and more humanity discovers scientifically, the arguments of religion fade, so you have to admit there's some kind of overlap. And then you have to also concede one has been proven right on more occasions than the other.
anyway im finding this topic exhausting cos i never usually write this much but this sort of thing interests me and i like to see what people think !

bright maroon · Post by **bright maroon** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:26 am

This is all i'm going to say about religion and science in this thread..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkjGs6GV ... re=related

wooda916 · Post by **wooda916** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:25 pm

bright maroon wrote:This is all i'm going to say about religion and science in this thread..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkjGs6GV ... re=related

wtf was that?!!?

psyolopher · Post by **psyolopher** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:27 pm

wooda916 wrote:
bright maroon wrote:This is all i'm going to say about religion and science in this thread..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkjGs6GV ... re=related

wtf was that?!!?

hahaha slug i assume!

wooda916 · Post by **wooda916** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:29 pm

Psyolopher wrote:
wooda916 wrote:
bright maroon wrote:This is all i'm going to say about religion and science in this thread..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkjGs6GV ... re=related

wtf was that?!!?
hahaha slug i assume!

im scared...

can you see jesus?

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