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firky wrote:

magma wrote: The idea that people will raise the stakes and go nuclear on conflict is a pretty massive leap in logic for me...

It came very close to blows about 25 years ago.

firky wrote:Well the Politburo certainly wanted to strike back going as far as scrambling bombers into the air over eastern europe ready to drop a bomb. We perhaps came closer to what we all fear than we did in 1962. Only one state was flexing it's muscles, Russia was shitting bricks.

uncle bill wrote:

kani wrote:aside from the quote from the OP stating that such an outcome might be inevitable.

The article that links to is the ravings of a mad historian posted on a website dedicated to blatant anti-Israeli propaganda. It was a really persuasive find.

Israel has no motive for attacking any Western nation. If it did it would become a pariah state and have nobody to trade with anymore. And that's if the retaliation didn't erase it from the map which it clearly would.

mutually assured destruction was just about enough to keep a rivalry as bitter as the Soviet Union and the US from even going to war with each other, let alone firing any big missiles.

Genevieve wrote:I disagree with the way Israel came to be but I also disagree with bloodshed on either side.

I think the best thing anyone outside of Israel/Palestine can do is just vote for polical figures who wish not to intervene with the conflict to avoid bloodshed in their own countries as a result of foreign meddling (911, etc etc). Israel won't be attacked by other countries if we stay out of Israel since they have nuclear weapons, similarly, they won't attack other countries because they're literally surrounded by enemies. It'll always be a heated situation. The main source of problems here is Western Europe and the USA adding both fuel to the fire AND keeping peace which is really just a ticking time bomb that disables any form of decent communication between Israel and Palestine.

hackman wrote:i've never said the op was fact, just another example of how crazy SOME people in israel actually are

hackman wrote:this was just a random venting my anger thread at israel triggered by seeing that link, which does not agree with my views about what israel may be doing

hackman wrote:it's a complete disgrace what they did when biden went over, I mean, what the fuck?

magma wrote:You mean in all close calls so far a human has seen sense and not fired the missiles? Humans don't like firing nukes, do they? I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. (and we're clearly talking about different events anyway, as I was discussing the Cuban Missile Crisis in my posts and I certainly wasn't alive for that!!)

Anyway, back on topic - what do you think of the idea that Israel destroying the *whole of Europe* is "inevitable"?

Personally, I think it's rather silly and reactionary.

firky wrote: I was talking about Able Archer, which you may have been alive for - it was in the early 80s. NATO had an exercise that was so realistic and on such a scale that Russia thought America was readying it's self for a nuclear attack and Russia prepared it's self for a counter-strike. The US version of events down play it obviously but if you read outside of the American sphere of influence you'll see how close we were to kicking off WW3. Reagan famously described as Armageddon and the final fight between good and bad

Load of rubbish, there's more Jews in Europe than there is in Israel which is a tiny little country not much bigger than Wales. Indeed outside of Israel and New York I think London is home to more Jews than anywhere else. But just suppose they did for arguments sake, how are they going to get around the British nukes, there's several subs at undisclosed locations at any point in time ready to launch several megaton nukes? After America and Russia we're the third most nuclear armed country in the world. France has nukes, Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, and Turkey have a joint nuke sharing policy and keep passing their warheads around so it is impossible to know where their nukes or at anyone time. A nuclear strike against Europe would be suicide.