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MikeE wrote: Also while UK has fuck all gun murders, you have a serious problem with knife crime. point being take guns out of the equation, and they will just be substituted with something else, all you are doing is preventing law abiding citizens from using them.

The UK's "serious problem" with knife crime comes NOWHERE NEAR america's problem with gun crime

Also interesting to note, in the states, most of the places where there are mass shooting are places where guns are banned, .... lets face it if you were a nutter planning on going out in a blaze of glory, would you hit a school (unarmed target rich environment) or say a NRA convention (where you'd get shot in seconds)...

Yes that's what happens when there are tonnes of guns around, this does fuck-all to prove your point

Switzerland kind of prooves this again, that a well armed, trained civilian population is a good deterrant for violent crime (and it also keeps the government in check, and those pesky germans at bay)

dude Switzerland's crime levels are on par with other small Western European nations, people don't walk around with their gun except to/from military training, and to say that the guns are the reason for the Swiss being an overall civilized and well-behaved people is fucking ludicrous. Also, "keeps the government in check"? gee, I wonder how every other democratic nation gets by without a shittonne of guns...

deadly habit wrote:

Ayatollah wrote:
That's bullshit. Don't you think we have gangs? Don't you think we have crime? We have all those problems but low murder rates and virtually no gun crime.

probably because you actually have law enforcement that can manage their criminals rather than babysit

no it's p much because we don't have guns all over the place

Ayatollah wrote:

MikeE wrote: Also while UK has fuck all gun murders, you have a serious problem with knife crime. point being take guns out of the equation, and they will just be substituted with something else, all you are doing is preventing law abiding citizens from using them.

The UK's "serious problem" with knife crime comes NOWHERE NEAR america's problem with gun crime

all depends on how you frame the problem but there's some interesting statistics here http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=1323

of course all this stuff is pointless when you use statistics covering the entire country. there are places in the uk and america where being the victim of violent crime is a million to 1, and places where its 1000 to 1.

just a thought....

If the gun laws in Mexico weren't so harsh & alot more people had them...
would people be so scared of the cartels? or would they enact vengeance upon the aggressors?

!!chea

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_t ... tal-crimes

deadly habit wrote:http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_t ... tal-crimes

Columbia and Mexico don't even make the list



edit: here we go http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_m ... per-capita

deadly habit wrote:http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_t ... tal-crimes

woo hoo!! if ya go per capita... Dominica is first & just behind em is....

New Zealand!! ahhahhahaha.

I wonder how many of them crimes are drug related!!

!!chea

that site has all sorts of fun stats and info

deadly habit wrote:http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_t ... tal-crimes

"Note: Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence. Per capita figures expressed per 1,000 population."

let's take a look at that list...

# 2 New Zealand: 105.881 per 1,000 people
# 4 Denmark: 92.8277 per 1,000 people
# 6 United Kingdom: 85.5517 per 1,000 people
# 8 United States: 80.0645 per 1,000 people
# 10 South Africa: 77.1862 per 1,000 people
# 37 Jamaica: 14.3231 per 1,000 people
# 39 Mexico: 12.8406 per 1,000 people
# 46 Venezuela: 9.307 per 1,000 people
# 53 Colombia: 4.98654 per 1,000 people

seems about right...

The dude was told he was too mentally ill for college, but he was mentally stable enough to subsequently buy a gun?

(Pada) wrote:The dude was told he was too mentally ill for college, but he was mentally stable enough to subsequently buy a gun?

yea unfortunately there isn't exactly intelligence and common sense tests in order to get a gun, just background checks...
the standards aren't exactly much higher for law enforcement and the combat jobs in the military either...

hmmm... I had to take an IQ test when I did the tests for the army over here, no wonder our army is "on to it" as!
ahhahhah

!!chea

Sirius wrote:hmmm... I had to take an IQ test when I did the tests for the army over here, no wonder our army is "on to it" as!
ahhahhah

!!chea

there's a similar testing scale over here, just you have to be dumber than a bag of rocks to not qualify for infantry

Ayatollah wrote:
Are you serious? Do you really think that's how it works? Mexico has some of the toughest gun laws in the world and has a hard time with massive weapon smuggling from the US to Mexico already!

Mexico used to have tough drug laws as well but have disappeared as the US has gotten tougher on them. What we can't take care of in the US Mexico will.

the problem in mexico isnt the country as a whole (fairly massive sparsely populated country) it's about 4 key cities which are some of the most violent on the planet

stappard wrote:

Ayatollah wrote:

MikeE wrote: Also while UK has fuck all gun murders, you have a serious problem with knife crime. point being take guns out of the equation, and they will just be substituted with something else, all you are doing is preventing law abiding citizens from using them.

The UK's "serious problem" with knife crime comes NOWHERE NEAR america's problem with gun crime

all depends on how you frame the problem but there's some interesting statistics here http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=1323

of course all this stuff is pointless when you use statistics covering the entire country. there are places in the uk and america where being the victim of violent crime is a million to 1, and places where its 1000 to 1.

those statistics are incomplete, as
1. that UK knife crime survey was a "worst-case estimate" conducted by asking a bunch of young people "HAVE YOU EVER BEEN SHANKED" so it's not as if it's a reliable statistic for knife crime,
2. there hasn't been a similar survey conducted in the US (or if there has, the obviously pro-gun guy who wrote the article chose to omit it) and who knows what numbers would show up
3. what we do know, and the author also chose to omit, is that -- I'll quote noam on this one --

noam wrote:okay, USA has a pop of 300,000,000, we have one of 70,000,000... so say we divide 12000 deaths by 5 or whatever to even out the numbers a little bit, our firearm related deathtoll should be around 2500... in 2009 there... 42.

The US has 60 TIMES AS MANY DEATHS BY GUN, PER CAPITA, as the UK.

SIXTY. TIMES.


edit:

pkay wrote:

Ayatollah wrote:
Are you serious? Do you really think that's how it works? Mexico has some of the toughest gun laws in the world and has a hard time with massive weapon smuggling from the US to Mexico already!

Mexico used to have tough drug laws as well but have disappeared as the US has gotten tougher on them. What we can't take care of in the US Mexico will.

Don't be ridiculous. Mexico has tough drug laws, it also has a massive drug trafficking problem caused by the US. You're saying that the Mexican Government would legalize weapons in order to produce and smuggle them to the US? Seriously that's fucking ridiculous.

This has probably been said already, but the little girl who was shot; was born on September 11th. Dude is as good as dead now

tyson wrote:

noam wrote:

a more sensible comparison to make would be countries of equal economic status as the USA, such as western european nations like Germany, France, UK

Wrong already. West european countries are among the best for economic equality. The united states is no where close.

it must have took you all of about .003 seconds to read my post wrong.

come back to me when you've read what i wrote sensibly without blinkers please.

oh and Ayatollah's input has been exceptional *docks hat*

see how much more civilised we are in the UK!

noam wrote:oh and Ayatollah's input has been exceptional *docks hat*

see how much more civilised we are in the UK!