Dubstep joins DnB down a dead end alley

[blackdown]

People always moan about DnB (including myself) however, it has suceeded as a genre. I would rest easy If I thought the scene would be as strong as DnB is ten years from npw.

success shouldn't exclusively be measured in units sold. d&b's a global phenomenon but is a tenth as musically interesting as it was this time ten years ago. that's nothing to aspire to.

[jay]

People always moan about DnB (including myself) however, it has suceeded as a genre. I would rest easy If I thought the scene would be as strong as DnB is ten years from npw.

success shouldn't exclusively be measured in units sold. d&b's a global phenomenon but is a tenth as musically interesting as it was this time ten years ago. that's nothing to aspire to.

[ichione]

Early last year Paradox/Nucleus played in Amsterdam @ IChiOne & dev played a “tunes that influenced me” set , inbetween tracks his banter included laments like “why oh why cant Dnb be like this again?!” & “…Wobble came along and ruined everything!”

good memmories

there is loads a shit around in this silly lil mundane world

makes it easy to spot the gems though
and there is loads precious things found underground still
and there always will be

it's a matter of attention
focus

[tacospheros]

People always moan about DnB (including myself) however, it has suceeded as a genre. I would rest easy If I thought the scene would be as strong as DnB is ten years from npw.

success shouldn't exclusively be measured in units sold. d&b's a global phenomenon but is a tenth as musically interesting as it was this time ten years ago. that's nothing to aspire to.

it seems threads like these attract the most jaded of people. you guys havent listened to real jungle in the last 5 -6 years have you ?? there is a lot of good shit out there and statements like these are incredibly out of touch with the current state of jungle, IMO . obviously pre95 was some of the best times, but it trivializes all the new hotness coming out

[nimbus]

there is loadsa badboy jungle and dnb about.

Also, to the man who created the thread - YOUR NOT saying this and YOUR NOT saying that and you telling people to read your origional post. Fair play but theres bare opinions and post coming through in here and people are having a say about all of these.

[ocr]

there is loadsa badboy jungle and dnb about.

Also, to the man who created the thread - YOUR NOT saying this and YOUR NOT saying that and you telling people to read your origional post. Fair play but theres bare opinions and post coming through in here and people are having a say about all of these.

I know its great isn't it? Initially though it was just frustrating having to reiterate what i was actually getting at. Even i dont know anymore...

Anyhow i piped down and watched the thread run this way and that & really enjoyed the way it went. Still the occasional misinformed derogatory comment but i know people are bored of threads like these & like to say so.

Loadsa knowledgable people weighed in with exactly what i wanted to know, this thread was a success. I wanted to draw out people who know their shit and hear what they had to say, and i did, and they had their say, and im chuffed and fascinated by their insights. Lots of great producers/music headz that i really respect and enjoy their music.

All excellent stuff really, I'm happy.

[dj phonetic]

Im scared but on the other hand... Hiphop maybe went down A wrong way, it also went down the right way. Its what you make of it.

[rekordah]

Im scared but on the other hand... Hiphop maybe went down A wrong way, it also went down the right way. Its what you make of it.

Totally agree.

[butterz]

Im scared but on the other hand... Hiphop maybe went down A wrong way, it also went down the right way. Its what you make of it.

nail on the head

[nubian minds]

Dev can be a whingy old tnuc sometimes.

[epithet]

People always moan about DnB (including myself) however, it has suceeded as a genre. I would rest easy If I thought the scene would be as strong as DnB is ten years from npw.

success shouldn't exclusively be measured in units sold. d&b's a global phenomenon but is a tenth as musically interesting as it was this time ten years ago. that's nothing to aspire to.

Imagine a post wobble landscape and ask yourself.

Do you think dubstep will still be as musically interesting 10 years from now, given that it seems not to be even from 2 years ago or do you think it will have settled into a formulaic halfstep vs breakstep pattern ?

Maybe you think it's still evolving and we are in transition phase between what was and what will be and that dubstep hasn't yet settled into a formula ?

Me, I think it'll get absorbed back into the realm of dub/reggae ?

[blackdown]

it seems threads like these attract the most jaded of people. you guys havent listened to real jungle in the last 5 -6 years have you ?? there is a lot of good shit out there and statements like these are incredibly out of touch with the current state of jungle, IMO . obviously pre95 was some of the best times, but it trivializes all the new hotness coming out

Between about 2004 and 2006 I was Knowledge Mag's News editor, so i feel qualified, having trudged through tons of new releases, to make statements about d&b. I'm not saying there's not good d&b records out there, but i stand by the view that it's 10% as interesting as it was in the mid to late 90s.

The relevance of dubstep to this, and my 'eyes open down a blind alley' comment that got quoted in the first post in this thread, is that countless people in dubstep went through jungle/d&b and are aware of what happened.

the question is whether dubstep can avoid these mistakes, or whether it will end up making them over again. i for one, through writing, radio and production, have no interest in pushing the latter...

[kris]

this is surreal

[marrrs]

How so?

Musically, England has got so much to be proud of, think it would be silly to disregard that because you dont wanna come over as some flag waving idiot.[/quote]

Yeah man, I agree. And Im not from the UK.

From an (geographic) outsiders' POV, by far the most interesting, groundbreaking, and exciting music scene.

Not just electronic either.......

[epithet]

I'm not saying there's not good d&b records out there, but i stand by the view that it's 10% as interesting as it was in the mid to late 90s.

The relevance of dubstep to this, and my 'eyes open down a blind alley' comment that got quoted in the first post in this thread, is that countless people in dubstep went through jungle/d&b and are aware of what happened.

the question is whether dubstep can avoid these mistakes, or whether it will end up making them over again. i for one, through writing, radio and production, have no interest in pushing the latter...

...and in 10 years time dubstep will probably be only 10% as interesting compared to now. That is to be expected as more musical avenues are explored and colonised and producers become settled in their comfort zones.

Could you perhaps expound upon the mistakes made by the d'n'b heads with possible paths to follow for dubsteppers to avoid the same traps and potholes ?

[nesslei]

u have to do alot of wadding

what does that look like?

[epithet]

the question is whether dubstep can avoid these mistakes, or whether it will end up making them over again. i for one, through writing, radio and production, have no interest in pushing the latter...

The stage is yours Blackdown. Please point out the mistakes and push us towards not making them again through your writing.

[blackdown]

The stage is yours Blackdown. Please point out the mistakes and push us towards not making them again through your writing.

well, wrt dubstep i had a fairly detailed go here, which is what got quoted 11 pages ago.

in terms of jungle's mistakes, i'd suggest some of its pitfalls were:

1. falling into production formulas esp, rhythmically
2. severing yourself from your cultural roots (ie does the community who helped build jungle in '93 now care?)
3. trying to make each beat faster and harder than the next (at 180 bpm, they've isolated their sound by making it unmixable with anything except 90bpm hip hop).
4. mistaking sonic engineering and loudness for emotion and innovation
5. mistaking tepid for deep, and noisy and distorted as... a good idea.
6. every dj convinced they should smash it

i'm not saying in all cases dubstep is making these mistakes or that it will, there's many innovators in and around the scene and lots to be positive about, but the precedent is still firmly there.

[Tekki]

"talking about music is like dancing about architecture"

I agree that the aesthetics seem to have priority over rythm, melody and structure. I like polyrythm (e.g lazerus-pinch), and melodic side (e.g Mala, Forgive, Unexpected, D1- cocaine, Kromestar-rainy days). Distance uses aesthetics to drive complement the feeling behind the tune, not compensate for a lack of one. Good to see Jazzsteppa incorporate acustic instrumentation. It's ok that people love the wobblers/hype-tunes, but there should be place for the deep stuff, and no DJ/producer should feel comprimised to produce whats expected. As for "scene" type stuff, show me the scene devoid of nights and music, if the dance is still there and booming, what else matters?

[epithet]

Thanks for that Blackdown and FWIW am fairly well in agreeance. While I love the emotional aspect of dubstep especially in an intimate environment, when I'm out I do want to hear smashing, well engineered, loud, sometimes noisy and distorted tunes in a set and I guess it's hard for a dj to pull back from that back to the deep emotional stuff especially when the punters aren't up for it.