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Sinestepper wrote:I think its lazy unless you can make something very unique from the source sample. eg fucked up amens in breakcore and that.

Does it matter if you're lazy if the end result is sick?
Is it all just means to an end?
If you produce huge tracks does it matter that you're not a great audio engineer?
Can you produce huge tracks without being a good audio engineer?
Is the result any less valuable?

Who cares if you're being lazy?

nah it deffo bothers me. If you throw loads of preset loops together the nd result is usually crap. thats what im on about. If you end up making i right banger then fine.

Of course sometimes it is done out of laziness and sometimes it is done because the artist doesn't know any better and sometimes it is done because the preset/sample sounds good and its the best thing for the track

if the end result is something enjoyable to listen to who really cares

Sinestepper wrote:nah it deffo bothers me. If you throw loads of preset loops together the nd result is usually crap. thats what im on about. If you end up making i right banger then fine.

If its crap then its crap whether it was created out of samples or some kid on his roof banging pots together into a laptop mic

IMO

Using them is less rewarding and won't really help you define your own sound, which is pretty important if you ask me.

But they can be useful if you're trying to do things ina timely manner and don't want to be bothered with creating your own risers/noise/percussion, which once again will slightly hinder you from creating your own signature sound, but not as much as say using sample packs bass sounds or synth presets.

Sinergy wrote:IMO

Using them is less rewarding and won't really help you define your own sound, which is pretty important if you ask me.

But they can be useful if you're trying to do things ina timely manner and don't want to be bothered with creating your own risers/noise/percussion, which once again will slightly hinder you from creating your own signature sound, but not as much as say using sample packs bass sounds or synth presets.

This. I was using a fair few loops a year or so ago for drums / percussion etc.. and it just doesnt sound like something i'd write. Song writing is all about finding your owns grooves for me and until you get down and dirty with some drum racks you'll never express that.

rendr wrote:If a loop is cut up, a present is tweaked & sample is processed then I think it's fine, as long as it's not recognizable. If it is obvious though it's a bit ...

Agreed... You can either

1. Take a really noticeable, over used loop, don't even eq, compress, clean, cut, resample, and leave as is...

or

2. You can take a sample, whether it be one from a sample pack, or one you find, clean it up, eq it, compress it, run it through some filters, do some cutting, and make it your own...

I think taking a loop from a sample pack, and leaving it as is, is indeed lazy, but If you are sample hunting for one shots, of random stuff online, like recently, my friend and I, were trying to make growl bass/reese bass sounds, with a lion growl, and it some what worked... Sampling is fun, and I am all for it, but if you are just using loops from like vengeance, or loop masters, and using them without any modification, I am pretty sure most producers will notice, even if your audience doesn't....

SMOR3S wrote:I am pretty sure most producers will notice, even if your audience doesn't....

Just to play devil's advocate here but, who cares? If your tune bumps, people play and dance to it, why does this really matter? I use the hell out of loops, and I mix/chop them because there are parts I do and don't like from certain loops and not because I'm trying to hide the fact that I'm using a vengeance loop. Using loops shouldn't feel any less rewarding nor will it hinder you from creating a signature sound. What if you're 'signature sound' is precisely the fact that you use 100% loops and samples to make your music? The whole growly reese sound is completely rinsed, but people still have their 'signature sound' within a sound that everyone has heard a million times, why should this be any different? If you're using straight melody kits with electro loops layered on top your tune will sound like crap regardless, so let those people do as they will.

if it sounds good, do it. if people are feeling it and the dancefloor is moving, it's a good tune. don't be the chin stroker who can't enjoy a tune because he spotted a sample from a popular sample pack. If you are spending time on shit like incidentals or white noise fxs / crashes / hits, you are wasting your time. Just use one from the thousands of sample packs available and focus on writting the tune and getting everything sounding good. And regarding presets, after a while, you will develop your own presets, your own instant good sounding sounds. Those are basically presets inside your mind.

tl;dr

if it sounds good, it's good.

Most of the time for me, using presets and loops without any tweaking results in mixes that sound out of place. Usually because the sonic imprint of the loop/preset wasn't made to fit into the context of your tune, it sounds a bit off. Always considered Front Line Assembly a good example of how a mix can suffer by using mostly pre-made sounds. Bill Leeb is notorious for lifting samples. Including ones straight out of other people's tunes, and it shows. That being said, if you find a way to pull it off and it sounds good to your ears, who cares? Although most people who use loops and presets because they're lazy, are also too lazy to tweak the sounds to fit their mix better.

Massive/FM8 dubstep preset packs sicken me

they usually sound shit though innit

You'll here some guy with a shit arrangement but the bass and synth lines sound well produced.

I'm not against sampling, presets, sound design.

I see it as you should use these in combination, The more tools in your arsenal the better.

Sinestepper wrote:they usually sound shit though innit

I'd say generic.

Sinergy wrote:IMO

Using them is less rewarding and won't really help you define your own sound, which is pretty important if you ask me.

Burial created a sound that is rinsed by everyone now a days and all he used were samples.

Every single big hip-hop producer of the 80s and 90s used almost strictly samples only. I don't know if it's as prevalent now as it was then but just an example.

2562 created an entire album using nothing but samples from old disco tracks. The album is called Fever, you should check it out if you haven't. It was a rather successful album by EDM standards.

A lot of the LA hip-hop sound from guys like Shlohmo and Shigeto uses loads of sampling.

To throw one more from the opposite end of the spectrum there's Bvdub who also produces mainly with samples.

I just wanted to throw a few examples out of people who have been very successful as well as defined a sound for themselves using samples. So much great music has come through this process. It's almost unbelievable that today people are still so against it.

I was talking about this with a friend after another friend showed me the vengeance packs that everyone seems to use, and he summed it up better than i could : 'its like, before youve even started to make the track, you have made the decision to sound like everyone else'. What I love(d) about electronic music and djs was that you can have every song with completely different instruments and sounds that would be impossible for a whole band to do, multiplied by every song. I listen to some music/sets/fucking whole genres these days and it could have all been made by the one guy, with one vengeance pack and a copy of massive. I sample stuff and I love to turn something into something new but if you are just using sample packs because you cant do sound design, but want to be beatport top 10 then I feel sorry for you. Write something that will be music in 5 years time, not 2011 dubstep or 2009 fidget or 2012 hardtrapmoombahtrancecore. Also fuck beatport and their policies which deliberately inflate the number of shitty shitty releases that are put out and then charge a premium for their upsampled exclusive mp3s and will now be synergising the shit out of their cross-brand marketshare business words longtail adverspeak event management.

Whats the difference between a sample and an oscillator?

Kinda sounds like the setup for a joke, but really.

They're both just a source of sound. Its not about where you start, its about where you end up.

JBE wrote: It's almost unbelievable that today people are still so against it.

It's because people who don't use samples creatively give it a bad rap.