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Does he also cause ice to melt?

magma wrote:

SCope13 wrote:Theists, you do realize I actually could be God right? I mean, you can't prove I'm not.

Scientists/Philosophers, you do realise that everyone you've ever met could actually not even exist, right? I mean, you can't prove I do. Neither of us can prove Wub does.

If you really want to break things down like that, Descartes has you on lock... you can't prove *anything* outside of your own direct experience - it's not really a particularly good way of approaching an conversation.

Gotta love logic, amirite?

Any guy that allows the Holocaust happen is in fact a total twat.

Quite, but only some believers think God would've had any choice in the matter. You're making fairly large assumptions about the God that you believe they believe in.

Well assuming Christians believe God to be omnipotent, then I would think their god had a choice in the matter. Otherwise, that would make him, well, not omnipotent.

No, I think that's Jesus' job

cityzen wrote:No, I think that's Jesus' job

God created the sun.

No. Ridiculous concept. If there's so many religions, isn't there a much better chance that all of them are wrong compared to one being right? And the earth is 6000 years old? Ask my arse

Electric_Head wrote:Surely if the God we're talking about created earth and the solar system then why not prevent pain and suffering?

Why prevent it? Said God would also, after all, have been responsible for mortality, pain and suffering. After all He could've made us out of tough, durable rock without any nerves and we would've been free of pain.

It's only if you make the assumption that God is omnipotent AND benevolent that you end up with a dichotomy. And even then, there is the question of what benevolence means and covers.

SCope13 wrote: Well assuming Christians believe God to be omnipotent, then I would think their god had a choice in the matter. Otherwise, that would make him, well, not omnipotent.

Well, he/she/it could be omnipotent, and chosen not to do anything about it. Again, just because this God person is supposed to be omnipotent doesn't necessarily mean that he/she/it is benevolent. And anyway, he/she/it could've seen into the future, saw what sorts of shit man would eventually cause to the rest of creation and thought, "Hmmm...I'd better just let them kill themselves off a bit at a time. Mankind is clearly a flawed creation, and after considerable thought, I prefer the earth with all its butterflies and stuff". Bottomline is, trying to assign human values and notions to an entity with godlike powers is silly.

Electric_Head wrote:

cityzen wrote:No, I think that's Jesus' job

God created the sun.

No, God created Helios.

this thread is making my heads hurt

Electric_Head wrote:Surely if the God we're talking about created earth and the solar system then why not prevent pain and suffering?

I was always taught he didn't cause the pain and suffering, he gave us the free will to do whatever we wanted in order to judge those who were worthy of ascending to his kingdom.

My own personal view is that if there is a god it is more of an unwilling god, a conciousness or being that unwittingly set into motion the events that caused the big bang who now is powerless to interact in our lives so has to watch as what could be deemed as his creations cause each other to suffer. I like to think that whatever being god is that this existence is his punishment for some unknown sin, and that the god that created him is of the same ilk, also being punished. This pattern continues ad infinitum.

But that could just be my imagination creating fanciful stories again.

We all know god is Stephen Fry.

it's turtles all the way down

I don`t believe any of what I`ve read in this thread.
You`re all just perpetrating the lie.

You all deserve to have your pants burned for lying.

cityzen wrote:it's turtles all the way down

SCope13 wrote:Well assuming Christians believe God to be omnipotent, then I would think their god had a choice in the matter. Otherwise, that would make him, well, not omnipotent.

Again, you're assuming a Christian God based on 2000 year old teachings about Christianity. Sure, some people believe the Bible word-for-word, but very few of the people that "believe in God" (the thread title) really do... even plenty high up in the Christian church are happy to accept Evolution and other scientific challenges to the Bible. The Vatican even has a resident astro-physicist... nobody has ever said the Bible is the word of God, not even the most fundamentalist Christian. If you were talking about the Koran, well perhaps...

But mainly, you're missing out on the hundreds of millions/billions of people that believe in God but aren't Christian or even Abrahamic in the slightest... Hindus, Sikhs, Romans, Greeks, Native Americans... well, every culture worldwide in some form or another. The belief in a God implies nothing about Christianity - Christianity implies a belief in God, but that's not the same thing.

tl;dr "Do you believe in God?" =/ "Are you a fundamentalist Christian".

Wait, cityzen is joking, right?

Sonika wrote:Wait, cityzen is joking, right?

Not about the turtles. He's dead serious about them.

magma wrote:nobody has ever said the Bible is the word of God, not even the most fundamentalist Christian.

What?
I've met hundreds of Christians that have said exactly that.

i don't believe in one singular god
but i do believe in infinity, spirits, an "afterlife" and "magic"

cityzen wrote:

magma wrote:nobody has ever said the Bible is the word of God, not even the most fundamentalist Christian.

What?
I've met hundreds of Christians that have said exactly that.

Me too.