shameless self promotion on this forum is getting very dull

arsenic · Post by **arsenic** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:17 am

lul, shiva on the warpath

seckle · Post by **seckle** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:38 am

everyone needs to step away from the keyboard on this one. too much crazy energy in this thread.

i'm not a hippy, but the one thing i've learned about musical movements down the years like the grateful dead and woodstock, is that if you look at a group of people like consumers, then at least make sure you treat them as friends first.

once you forget that key point; then you might as well be selling people burgers and kebabs, instead of subbass.

_boring · Post by **_boring** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:30 am

flipw · Post by **flipw** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:31 am

I suppose it is difficult to sell 500 records without much promotion unless they are brilliant.

selector.dub.u · Post by **selector.dub.u** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:19 am

flipw wrote:I suppose it is difficult to sell 500 records without much promotion unless they are brilliant.

Sometimes brilliant artists and records get overlooked because of a lack of promotion. Even brilliant artists records don't sell if no one hears them. A little bit of promotion might actually result in people listening to a piece of music and determining that it is brilliant.

Also, it appears to me in some cases that the most successful artists are not the most talented but the most audacious.

djshiva · Post by **djshiva** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:02 am

seckle wrote:
everyone needs to step away from the keyboard on this one. too much crazy energy in this thread.

i'm not a hippy, but the one thing i've learned about musical movements down the years like the grateful dead and woodstock, is that if you look at a group of people like consumers, then at least make sure you treat them as friends first.

once you forget that key point; then you might as well be selling people burgers and kebabs, instead of subbass.

And I think the reason I am pissed about this is because I have ALWAYS approached people as friends first. And I am sick of being slagged over some wacked out perception people have about my or my label partner's motivations.

I know this thread wasn't originally necessarily aimed just at us, but that's where it has headed, because people chose to specifically highlight us.

Pardon me for being a little chapped about it.

beatlejuice · Post by **beatlejuice** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:23 am

sapphic_beats wrote: I have ALWAYS approached people as friends first.

Houston...we have a problem!

alien pimp · Post by **alien pimp** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:41 am

still trying to draw a line with the air chalk?

i bet the moaners spend least money and efforts to support the music, they follow mostly artists with big media hype around them and i'm sure 99% of them have no clue what the market asks from labels to survive
if i didn't bump more my threads was just out of some karmic luck or something that kept things on the floating line.
but i will anytime needed

only if i had enough time right now... for each moaner i'd post here an overlooked but excellent release, just to make up for the threads that went down because useless threads like this
but maybe someone else can fill in for me

SickMan D · Post by **SickMan D** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:46 am

Posting in this thread just for kudos...

reptilian · Post by **reptilian** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:14 am

sapphic_beats wrote:
And I think the reason I am pissed about this is because I have ALWAYS approached people as friends first. And I am sick of being slagged over some wacked out perception people have about my or my label partner's motivations.

I know this thread wasn't originally necessarily aimed just at us, but that's where it has headed, because people chose to specifically highlight us.

Pardon me for being a little chapped about it.

to be fair you have always struck me as really polite, thoughtful, friendly and tactful

i've never heard you calling people "whining bitches" for example and insulting them or shamelessly jumping threads to promote your latest release

basically if anyone has had a problem with surface tension's forum posting/promotional methods it seems extremely unlikely to me that they were thinking of you

reptilian · Post by **reptilian** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:24 am

alien pimp wrote: i bet the moaners spend least money and efforts to support the music, they follow mostly artists with big media hype around them and i'm sure 99% of them have no clue what the market asks from labels to survive

i and many other other of the so-called "moaners" on this thread started listening to this music before it was even called dubstep

big media hype didn't exist back then as you well know

as for the market, many of the posts have been how the tactics being used by some people might be counterproductive and bad style - no-one said you shouldn't promote yourself in some way even if some advocated using the quality of the music as a means of selling itself

i for one think the music quality, running your own nights and doing your own mixes, subtle and respectful use of forums and linking up with like minded people is the way to go but that's me..

alien pimp · Post by **alien pimp** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:31 am

and when such a nice lady partners with st and puts out such quality records (wait til you hear the next one as well), while you talk all sorts of naive stuff on boards, i think this should get you thinking

also the fact that i profiled you very well should worry you, here's a list of the last threads you bumped, as a proof i read you like a bus ticket and i know what i'm talking about. don't get me wrong, it's not about your taste in music, it's about how you understand and contribute to things:

shameless self promotion on this forum is getting very dull (countless times)
The Hardest Question For Mankind To Answer...
Skream - Clap Your Hands
Mala - Dub Grub
recommend me some straight gangster shit
Coki dubs
big respect to dBridge
should i buy casspers new album is it any good?
Are 320s really better quality than vinyl?
DMZ015

i bet the moaners spend least money and efforts to support the music, they follow mostly artists with big media hype around them and i'm sure 99% of them have no clue what the market asks from labels to survive

reptilian · Post by **reptilian** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:51 am

alien pimp wrote:and when such a nice lady partners with st and puts out such quality records (wait til you hear the next one as well), while you talk all sorts of naive stuff on boards, i think this should get you thinking

also the fact that i profiled you very well should worry you, here's a list of the last threads you bumped, as a proof i read you like a bus ticket and i know what i'm talking about. don't get me wrong, it's not about your taste in music, it's about how you understand and contribute to things:

shameless self promotion on this forum is getting very dull (countless times)
The Hardest Question For Mankind To Answer...
Skream - Clap Your Hands
Mala - Dub Grub
recommend me some straight gangster shit
Coki dubs
big respect to dBridge
should i buy casspers new album is it any good?
Are 320s really better quality than vinyl?
DMZ015

i bet the moaners spend least money and efforts to support the music, they follow mostly artists with big media hype around them and i'm sure 99% of them have no clue what the market asks from labels to survive

he he

yeah i take your point and i can see what you're getting at

but i'm not apologising for liking mala/skream/coki etc or wanting to discuss their work- i think they are amongst the best and most interesting producers and have been from the start.

surely i don't have any obligation to "support" anyone or "contribute" to anything as long as i follow the rules of the forum. sadly despite listening to quite a bit of radio recently i haven't heard as many tunes that have interested me (compare that with 2005/2006 when i bought practically every record that came out!)

i do like new stuff like some tunes by zomby, joker, pinch, benga etc.. but i don't dj anymore as i have other priorities that i've focused on

however i still remain interested in dubstep and i have the right to post on whatever threads i want - i was just pointing out that i'm sick of seeing people hijacking threads and aggressively promoting their music which i thought seemed like a lame way of doing things and it seems a lot of others agree

maybe you just feel the need to aggressively defend this because you do it a lot yourself? sorry if this isnt true but i cant be arsed to go rifling through your previous posts

alien pimp · Post by **alien pimp** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:29 am

no, i have a brain anomaly that compulsively makes me stand for truth

everything you said it's besides the point, which makes me think you missed it
i'll rephrase some of it, then i'll take care of work, because this is not one of those days when i can afford carrying debates on the board:

you don't bump any other quality releases than those guys', who already have tons of media coverage
+
reality is there's more excellent releases around besides what they put out, while sometimes they put out totally mediocre shit (it's almost normal when they get their asses kissed each and every)
+
hype sells 5 times more than quality
+
the majority of kids are just like you.
=
somebody has to compensate somehow for you. your own attitude generates what you don't like.

and as i said, i didn't do it as much just because some favorable "lucky" situation like the fact that when i started dubkraft (about 3 years ago) anything good would almost automatically get praise and the good image accumulated over time stayed with dubkraft.
but things are changing and i'm ready to change as well if needed. we'll see starting tonight or tomorrow, when a new release should be up

as willie nelson said once: "don't bogart love"

rekordah · Post by **rekordah** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:55 am

Reptilian wrote: to be fair you have always struck me as really polite, thoughtful, friendly and tactful

x2

And that's exactly how you should promote your product to your market.

Aggressive marketing techniques and underground music scenes don't really bode well, it will alienate your audience. Because, whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, most underground music markets hold coolness and aloofness in high regard - it's just the way it is. Treat promotion as a "hustle" and force products into people's faces then you can kiss a big chunk of respect goodbye. And that's what it comes down to at the end of the day, respect - respecting your market and thus gaining respect back from them. Respect is what will gain you long-term success.

And I don't think people on here are saying that you shouldn't promote your releases at all, you've just gotta be tactful - sending promo releases to the DJs and journalists which are most influential within your specific market, and building up a good relationship with these people. You want your release to be talked about, but talking too much about it yourself is damaging - lets face it, if someone tries to sell you car insurance in the street you won't be interested, but if someone who is trusted for their opinion on car insurance says they're a good shout then you will check them out. It's the whole connectors/mavens thing, but in music marketing there doesn't seem to be much time for persuaders - salesmen are just too "uncool".

I don't know why I'm getting involved in this to be honest, I just find it interesting.

And Shiva, I can understand you're pissed off because it seems like people are having a go at you, but they're not, It's your label partner who is causing all the bad feelings and who seemingly decidicates all their time on this forum to giving your label a bad name. I'm sorry but the "all publicity is good publicity" thing may work in the world of pop/celebrity culture, but it doesn't work in underground music scenes.

rogue star · Post by **rogue star** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:25 pm

selector.dub.u wrote:
flipw wrote:I suppose it is difficult to sell 500 records without much promotion unless they are brilliant.
Sometimes brilliant artists and records get overlooked because of a lack of promotion. Even brilliant artists records don't sell if no one hears them. A little bit of promotion might actually result in people listening to a piece of music and determining that it is brilliant.

gwarn sir

I feel that we @ Urban Graffiti have pretty good quality control, and a descent artist roster with some extremely talented individuals, but its obvious that this alone isn't helping our sales, dont get me wrong we can at least pay our artists (even if we are out of pocket) but without a good few people to help do our promo for us and so forth how do we push the sounds further? we try not to unnecessarily bump our threads, but because of this, an informative thread where people can leave their comments and check out some forthcoming releases ends up on the 3rd page the next day. As it is there's a lot of traffic on this here forum, but its not just thread bumping - theres a shed load of pointless threads that get started too lets not forget that.

I still would like to know who says where to draw the line, and who gets to say what is good and bad music, how you supposedly do successful marketing and promo without winding someone up? i guess you dont.

People will not like everyone's methods of promo same way they wont all like breakstep or wobble, same way that people might like the PS3 over the 360 then video a mate trashin a 360 cos they hate it so much - its personal preference, like it always has been in music and bottom line is you cant please everyone. I think its a shame that some really talented individuals get over looked cos we are trying to keep some of you happy by not bumping threads or over killing promo - so hows about this then? if you dont like people doing serious self promo'ing for their label why not try checking out what they are trying to push? maybe leave a comment? help the community your part of and in the process expand your knowledge of artists and music in this scene to enrich your own lives - there's the solution there

did · Post by **did** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:50 pm

shameless self promotion is annoying. check out my new tune 'shameless self promotion dub' http://www.myspace.com/wobbles

reptilian · Post by **reptilian** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:15 pm

double post

reptilian · Post by **reptilian** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:15 pm

alien pimp wrote:
you don't bump any other quality releases than those guys', who already have tons of media coverage
+
reality is there's more excellent releases around besides what they put out, while sometimes they put out totally mediocre shit (it's almost normal when they get their asses kissed each and every)
+
hype sells 5 times more than quality
+
the majority of kids are just like you.
=
somebody has to compensate somehow for you. your own attitude generates what you don't like.

and as i said, i didn't do it as much just because some favorable "lucky" situation like the fact that when i started dubkraft (about 3 years ago) anything good would almost automatically get praise and the good image accumulated over time stayed with dubkraft.
but things are changing and i'm ready to change as well if needed. we'll see starting tonight or tomorrow, when a new release should be up

as willie nelson said once: "don't bogart love"

i didnt miss your point and actually i'm not naive or "like all the other kids" (despite your patronising comment)

i do get to hear plenty of upcoming stuff and always have a listen when someone posts up something - it only riles me if i see it 500x a day in my face

the fact is that i haven't felt moved to start a thread or comment on these "unknown" artists because i didn't like their music.

my personal view is that people like mala, skream and many of the other big names is that they are big not because of hype or being in the right place at the right time or being blessed with the right friends and associates but because of their immense talent

i also think that others with talent can find a way through without acting like arrogant dicks or pushy salesmen

as i tried to say before plenty of producers have come through without being "insiders" because their talent speaks for itself

the fact that you're trying to pick fault with me is pissing me off as i think the threads that i bump or contribute to are irrelevant

FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME I DONT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ARTISTS STARTING THREADS OR PROMOTING THEMSELVES ON FORUMS ITS JUST BAD WHEN IT IS RUDE PUSHY OR OTT

just because you and a few others are bitter that some people are big and others aren't is not my problem ok?

you've been very patronising and rude to me with your dismissive and intrusive comments - i don't have a duty to promote artists i don't like you know

also, if everyone spammed as much as some of the worst offenders WE WOULDN'T HAVE A FORUM TO DISCUSS ON IT WOULD JUST BE LIKE A SPAM FOLDER!

deadly_habit · Post by **deadly_habit** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:20 pm

LISTEN TO MY MUSIC & BUY IT OR I'LL SHANK YA GET MI BLUD

shameless self promotion on this forum is getting very dull

Who is online