Brostep / Skrillex and the Forum.

[joeki]

The two countries you mention have absolutely no musical culture what so ever though.
I mean, there's always the underground cultures, like punk and electronic music that are strong. But the mainstream music is so detached from the rest of the world and so far behind too. Lowsly mainstream musical markets both in JPN and KOR.
Of course, what you said about the wealth coming into plays is correct too. But it's not just wealth, I don't wan to turn this into an anthropological essay, but stealing isn't exactly appreciated in those tight knit societies.

[ultraspatial]

what point?

if you havnt got the money for something, go out and steal it?!

Actually that's a good point, because the reason why piracy exists is that there's too many poor people.

If you want to stop piracy, you can just stop making people poor.

Nations with lack of piracy are basically nations with little or no poor people. Especially Korea and Japan.

Why bother stopping piracy when you can't even reduce poverty? Piracy will exist in America and Britain as long as there is strong economic inequality.

that + for a long while you could hardly get new music in less developed countries, I'm talking before the days of online shopping. Another factor, I believe, is the sheer amount of music released; it's hard to afford buying every single tune/ep/album you want/like. "Piracy" in this case can be a sort of quality control: you just buy the releases you enjoyed the most. I honestly don't view this as actual piracy since noone is directly profiting from it.

[espire]

what point?

if you havnt got the money for something, go out and steal it?!

Actually that's a good point, because the reason why piracy exists is that there's too many poor people.

If you want to stop piracy, you can just stop making people poor.

Nations with lack of piracy are basically nations with little or no poor people. Especially Korea and Japan.

Why bother stopping piracy when you can't even reduce poverty? Piracy will exist in America and Britain as long as there is strong economic inequality.

The Netherlands, Belgium, Scandinavia?

[leyenda]

Lol @ 'like' my fire

Let's pretend that never happened as I'm kind of a big Doors fan. Let's also pretend this track never happened. Pretending is fun.

[twothirdsmajority]

The two countries you mention have absolutely no musical culture what so ever though.

WRONG!

If you're talking about "musical culture" as in culture of music, both Japan and Korea are pretty strong. Google Enka music in Japan and Pungmul in Korea.

And besides, if Japan does not have a musical culture, then where did Kode9 got his samples for 9 Samurai?

but stealing isn't exactly appreciated in those tight knit societies.

Not really. It's just that the Japanese and Koreans are really supportive of their arts scenes.

Piracy exists in Japan, but to an extent where at the same time they would buy an original copy of the same product they pirated. Look at "music otakus" who are basically fans of AKB48, Utada Hikaru, Nana Mizuki, L'arc En Ciel and even DnB producer Makoto. They'd download a free unauthorized copy but at the same time would line up outside Tower Records for a few hours just for the CD release.

It's all due to a sense of trust. Compared to the West, Japanese people really trust one another. The reasons why so many unofficial fan art aka "doujinshi" of various pop culture exists legally is because the authors and the copyright holders trust the people making these doujinshis as a way of creating new fanbases instead of suing them like in America.

[DJDM]

would you all just stop trying to justify piracy?

piracy is stealing. that's that

[twothirdsmajority]

would you all just stop trying to justify piracy?

piracy is stealing. that's that

But the point is: Poor people steal. And the best way to stop piracy is to have less poor people.

How hard is it to make that point across?

[mrdii]

I don't pay too much attention to these 'Brostep' threads and views so my opinion may be different to most but here's my take on it:

Brostep is an easier way to make music than compared to some of the darker, more original side of dubstep. This is seen by every man and his dog 'producing' on youtube and stuff which for the most part is mainly 'remixes' which just add drums and wobble. Why is it so easy to do this? I think because you don't necessarily need a melody when you add a wobble as the main 'chorus' because it can be justified as 'filth' and bass heads will lap it up blindly. That said, I still think it's easier said than done and a few of the top Brostep producers do have a genuine talent. For instance, I know their music is fairly easy to make and is very generic, but sometimes listening to Mt Eden can be quite relaxing...albeit it's very unoriginal. Then there's Borgore, who I hate for the most part. His music is pretty soulless and generally rubbish. But, again. I enjoy his Sleepyhead/passionpit remix which is less intense than his usual stuff.

However, after months of hate on Skrillex, I actually think he is pretty talented for the record and is on some kind of 'musical journey'. He started of as some whiny emo kid in a rock group and then went to 'dubstep' - if you can truly call his music dubstep that it. It sounded extremely electronic and was a million miles away from the original stuff. Like the others I mentioned above, his music was very generic and followed a very readable formula (Wobbles, big drums, cheesy vocals etc...)
However, I recently listened to Summit with Ellie Goulding and I actually thought "This is good". His music was obviously never real dubstep, and to an extent he was experimenting. I'd prefer him to go into trance with no wobbles and I think he's going that way. IF, he would commit to trance, with no wobbles etc...I think he could be a pretty good producer for what it's worth. But whether he will or not is another question altogether.

/rant.

[espire]

would you all just stop trying to justify piracy?

piracy is stealing. that's that

But the point is: Poor people steal. And the best way to stop piracy is to have less poor people.

How hard is it to make that point across?

Or they should just have moral values.

[DJDM]

would you all just stop trying to justify piracy?

piracy is stealing. that's that

But the point is: Poor people steal. And the best way to stop piracy is to have less poor people.

How hard is it to make that point across?

so your solution is to just turn off poverty? it doesn't work like that.

also, i don't agree with that point in the first place. i know plenty of very well-off people that obtain all of their music illegally. i can't tell you why they'd steal from the artists they love rather than support them, but it's just how it is. especially with today's youth... i'm the only person i know that purchases all of my music legally.

[benjam]

would you all just stop trying to justify piracy?

piracy is stealing. that's that

But the point is: Poor people steal. And the best way to stop piracy is to have less poor people.

How hard is it to make that point across?

But going off that logic your also saying no 'rich' people have pirated media. I find that hard to believe and think its more about the effect digital formats have had on the music industry.

[-[2]DAY_-]

honestly poor people can steal all the soap, water, clothes, and food they want. if you have a fucking laptop, optimum online, and an ipod, you ain't poor. Music is a most human expression and is as free as it should be. Beat a drum and holler at the top of your lungs like a caveman. Solid. But high quality master recordings of other artists' music is a luxury item, and a privilege.

[leyenda]

It sounded extremely electronic

Well...all of this stuff is electronic music. Dunno why people say all the brostep stuff sounds robotic either tbh; most of Autechre's stuff sounds more robotic to me. But they like to use it to describe something as soulless I guess.

[joeki]

I don't agree with you mate. Commercial music in Japan is total bullshit. I know because I too have lived there long enough to know it. Traditional music, like the sorts you mention is something completely different than contemporary commercial music which is the point at hand, thus the comparison is irrelevant. Also, in 1954, piracy didn't exist in the first place so it's also pretty irrelevant to bring Fumiyo Hayasaka into play here....
I don't question that Japan does have a musical culture, on the contrary, but no quality mainstream culture anyway at least not on the same terms as the U.K. or Europe for example.
I'm one of Hirasawa Susumu's biggest fans by the way, arguably one of electronic musics biggest pioneers but as I mentioned, I was talking about commercial music...

And what you mention there about strong ties with art and respect, is exactly the same thing I said just more elaborate (and I stated before I didn't want to get into some anthropology discussion (what you just now made me do). If you want to call that wrong, be my guest though you lost me there?


East-Asian markets for music are totally different from Western-Europe. Wealth comes into play but isn't the driving factor for this, which was basically my point (trying to avoid circle-discussions).


also @ DJDM: not sure if you were referencing my post, but where do I defend piracy? If you've seen me post here for a longer time, you'd know I'd be the last person to condone it.

[DJDM]

I don't agree with you mate. Commercial music in Japan is total bullshit. I know because I too have lived there long enough to know it. Traditional music, like the sorts you mention is something completely different than contemporary commercial music which is the point at hand, thus the comparison is irrelevant. Also, in 1954, piracy didn't exist in the first place so it's also pretty irrelevant to bring Fumiyo Hayasaka into play here....
I don't question that Japan does have a musical culture, on the contrary, but no quality mainstream culture anyway at least not on the same terms as the U.K. or Europe for example.
I'm one of Hirasawa Susumu's biggest fans by the way, arguably one of electronic musics biggest pioneers but as I mentioned, I was talking about commercial music...

And what you mention there about strong ties with art and respect, is exactly the same thing I said just more elaborate (and I stated before I didn't want to get into some anthropology discussion (what you just now made me do). If you want to call that wrong, be my guest though you lost me there?


East-Asian markets for music are totally different from Western-Europe. Wealth comes into play but isn't the driving factor for this, which was basically my point (trying to avoid circle-discussions).


also @ DJDM: not sure if you were referencing my post, but where do I defend piracy? If you've seen me post here for a longer time, you'd know I'd be the last person to condone it.

sorry for the mix-up mate, i was referencing the post that defended poor people's right to steal music..

[ultraspatial]

Nobody was defending people's right to steal. Those were just arguments of why this is happening.

[joeki]

on a relevant note though,

I do wish labels would include download codes for people buying vinyl expecting someone to buy a release on two formats is expecting a bit much to be honest in these times (and that's where I can somewhat come to terms with the poor people excuse).
Or labels could generally spend more effort on digital downloads, like printable artwork or PDF booklets or whatever.
I know this would bring an added cost to the release. But I for one would be willing to pay extra for a digital package that is worthwhile, rather than two 320 kbps files and lowly digital artwork. In instrumental underground music, this is becoming more and more the case, I do not see why electronic music should stay behind on this. For me it would make it a whole lot more attractive to buy digital...

/end rant

[DJDM]

on a relevant note though,

I do wish labels would include download codes for people buying vinyl expecting someone to buy a release on two formats is expecting a bit much to be honest in these times (and that's where I can somewhat come to terms with the poor people excuse).
Or labels could generally spend more effort on digital downloads, like printable artwork or PDF booklets or whatever.
I know this would bring an added cost to the release. But I for one would be willing to pay extra for a digital package that is worthwhile, rather than two 320 kbps files and lowly digital artwork. In instrumental underground music, this is becoming more and more the case, I do not see why electronic music should stay behind on this. For me it would make it a whole lot more attractive to buy digital...

/end rant

i feel the same way.. digital is the only way i can purchase music, as i cannot afford a turntable.... but that doesn't mean i go out and steal one, though

[ultraspatial]

on a relevant note though,

I do wish labels would include download codes for people buying vinyl expecting someone to buy a release on two formats is expecting a bit much to be honest in these times (and that's where I can somewhat come to terms with the poor people excuse).
Or labels could generally spend more effort on digital downloads, like printable artwork or PDF booklets or whatever.
I know this would bring an added cost to the release. But I for one would be willing to pay extra for a digital package that is worthwhile, rather than two 320 kbps files and lowly digital artwork. In instrumental underground music, this is becoming more and more the case, I do not see why electronic music should stay behind on this. For me it would make it a whole lot more attractive to buy digital...

/end rant

i feel the same way.. digital is the only way i can purchase music, as i cannot afford a turntable.... but that doesn't mean i go out and steal one, though

But do you buy every single wav/flac/mp3 you listen to?

[Sonika]

would you all just stop trying to justify piracy?

piracy is stealing. that's that

But the point is: Poor people steal. And the best way to stop piracy is to have less poor people.

How hard is it to make that point across?

Oh, I see. All poor people steal. That's not just amassing a huge stereotype about a large group of the worlds population.


Anyways it isn't true. I live in a pretty well off neighborhood and go to a good school, and I'm pretty much the only kid I know who doesn't pirate obsessively (I used to - I'm tryig to stop now)