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Shonky wrote:

Misk wrote:

D-Nile wrote:Will Cockney Thug stand the test of time against Goat Stare?

a perfect summary of this thread.

I get the feeling that Cockney Thug might well break through more than Goat Stare to be honest

interesting, i think another aspect worth thinking about of the evolution dubstep's undergone is the progression (?) of stuff like the digital mystikz ep on big apple and early dmz stuff to tunes like spongebob...

D-Nile wrote:hmmm - I meant be held up in years to come as a classic rather than be appreicated by people outside of the scene...

Cockney Thug = Can

Goat Stare = Cluster

I know what I am gonna listen too...

exactly.

Misk wrote:

D-Nile wrote:hmmm - I meant be held up in years to come as a classic rather than be appreicated by people outside of the scene...

Cockney Thug = Can

Goat Stare = Cluster

I know what I am gonna listen too...

exactly.

Can old drone-rockers?
Who the fuck are Cluster?

I think Cockney Thug will go bigger as it's a big party tune, which to my mind Goat Stare isn't (artistic preferences and what constitutes a party aside). I can see it crossing over easily because of that.

I think there's a definite danger of "there's too much wobblestep" becoming a green aligator. Aligators are not green, but enough people think they are, so it's become a fact. Enough people are saying there's too much wobblestep, but is there really? What tunes out there use the wobble? A few by Skream, a few by Coki and then Caspa.

Is "there's too much wobblestep" just another way of saying "I don't like Caspa's tunes"?

already heard lots of people saying theyve heard cockney thug at non dubstep events. Apparently scratch perverts opened with it a while back, and I also heard about it being on during a change over at an arctic monkeys gig!

I dont know how well this applies to the whole argument, but it seems to fit because of the examples being used. Cockney thug is going to crossover to other genres alot easier as I dont think it needs the soundsystem that something like the goat stare NEEDS! You've got the little horn bit and stuff to keep you interested even without bass, whereas the goat stare loses a HELL of alot when its not making your teeth bleed.

I dunno if im making any sense (or if my argument is even valid)

can't the more deeper stuff be built for the dance floor at the same time, i mean a tune doesn't have to be half step to be deep. recently ive been finding myself listening to more n more deep, minimal techno...the atmosphere n vibes are there but yet it still keeps its groove n basslines made 2 get ure arse shaking, and it works very well on the dance floor.

jera wrote:can't the more deeper stuff be built for the dance floor at the same time, i mean a tune doesn't have to be half step to be deep. recently ive been finding myself listening to more n more deep, minimal techno...the atmosphere n vibes are there but yet it still keeps its groove n basslines made 2 get ure arse shaking, and it works very well on the dance floor.

For sure, that new 2562 bit ive heard pinch and appleblim play is minimal as heck, just a few bongo hits, but fuck me i just find myself jumping up and down like a loon.

Dunno what 2562 did there, but i liiiiiike!!!!

things change when music of marginal popularity gains a wider audience. it's inevitable

I used to bang on against the wobble, but to be fair its not that. A good tunes a good tune regardless.

If it makes me go 'thats ridiculous mate' then its gonna be played again basically,

I do worry about lifespan of my reocrds though sometimes, can you still smash it at a rave playing older tunes that are big, obv you couldnt get away with Midnight Request Line these days could ya? Maybe its a sign of how new the music genre is and how quickly its pushin.

Virus human race wrote:obv you couldnt get away with Midnight Request Line these days could ya? Maybe its a sign of how new the music genre is and how quickly its pushin.

Youngster has been playing Request Line recently.

bagelator wrote:things change when music of marginal popularity gains a wider audience. it's inevitable

i agree. When more people become interested in the music, producers get interested as well. whether their just jumping on the bandwagon, or their just learning about it later than most doesnt matter. Inevitably there is more music, and thus, more styles of that music to sift through to find the stuff you like.

Theres this pervasive sense of superiority in all underground music, that i find rather ridiculous. Who cares if you were into this music before X or Y. That doesnt make it your music more than someone elses, it just means you heard about it before someone else, nothing more.

I will say that i do agree that theres more shit that one has to sift through to find the good tunes these days. I've been noticing the specter of over-production creeping into dubstep. but like bagelator said, its inevitable.

if i heard request line out...id go skitz...its a classic

well 2562 has got years of making other types of music behind him though - so that's why his sound is so sophisticated...

I was using can and cluster as a metaphor for the difference between c-thug and goat stare. Both are Krautrock bands. One is better than the other (imo) but it's not the one that most people have heard of.

I don't think the pervs playing a tune is benchmark for it's quality - see Bodyrock etc 5 years ago for that one...

I agree with the soundsystem comments but surely people shold be making dubstep for a big rig - not the shitty jbls down your local wetherspoons? (a shitty chain pub brand for all non brits)

We are now talking about the difference between pop and the underground really - cockney thug is more acceptable to the outside world - fine - but are they really a benchmark for what's a good tune in our scene?

Do you think they would like bury the boy?

I'd love to hear Midnight Request Line at the next night I go to, I'm sure the place would go mental if It came on as well.

every time I har request line it still shocks me how many bits in it that I never noticed! It's a deceptive tune.

D-Nile wrote:We are now talking about the difference between pop and the underground really - cockney thug is more acceptable to the outside world - fine - but are they really a benchmark for what's a good tune in our scene?

Do you think they would like bury the boy?

I don't see something being popular as necessarily bad and I think it's pretty snobbish to think otherwise. I like Cockney Thug as it reminds me a lot of 2-tone stuff from when I was a nipper. Ghost Town was number one donchaknow and I don't think anyone would say that was shit (unless they're bell-ends obviously)

I do worry about lifespan of my reocrds though sometimes, can you still smash it at a rave playing older tunes that are big, obv you couldnt get away with Midnight Request Line these days could ya? Maybe its a sign of how new the music genre is and how quickly its pushin.[/quote]

its funny you should say that - we have been saying recently that midnight request line could actually be held up now as an amazing example of a sophisticated, well arranged piece that also rocks the dancefloor.

certainly more fwd looking than some of the lumpy rock beats being offered at the minute. but it is good to remember in this now very over large thread (how many pages!!!) that there is loads of wicked dubstep around - but there is some more boring stuff, and some of that does seem to be dominant at raves.

D-Nile - open your ears ! you should know midnight request line backwards by now !

by the way cockney thug is SICK. but no more geezer swearing tunes. please.

Shonky wrote:

D-Nile wrote:We are now talking about the difference between pop and the underground really - cockney thug is more acceptable to the outside world - fine - but are they really a benchmark for what's a good tune in our scene?

Do you think they would like bury the boy?

I don't see something being popular as necessarily bad and I think it's pretty snobbish to think otherwise. I like Cockney Thug as it reminds me a lot of 2-tone stuff from when I was a nipper. Ghost Town was number one donchaknow and I don't think anyone would say that was shit (unless they're bell-ends obviously)

Agree.

All this talk about musical sophistication and Quality and lasting value is chilling me to the punk rock bones.

Everyone talks about parallels with DnB, but one of the things that happened before DnB went boring was little elites getting together to ban ragga from their nights and start defining what was and was not acceptable as 'quality DnB'. And talking of lasting value, these days I'd rather listen to Remarc than more or less anything that Alex Reece or Adam F put out.

This is why I'd prefer to support deep stuff / happy stuff / percussive stuff (and the DJ's that play it) positively rather than bashing aggressive midrangey stuff.

And because I refuse to give up stupid fun music because it's not 'Quality' enough.

We are now talking about the difference between pop and the underground really - cockney thug is more acceptable to the outside world - fine - but are they really a benchmark for what's a good tune in our scene?

No matter how hard I try I cannot get my head around this comment

this thread is interesting to me.

i can see how those who are going to dubstep events on the regular are feeling a samey thing going on, both in the style of the recent "bangers", the incestuous nature of a growing genre, and in the djs who feel like they need to play the "hits" or the bangers to get the crowd response.

obviously i am a bit detached from some of that, living in a place where i am lucky if i get to play/hear the music once a month or so. sometimes it's frustrating to feel so isolated, but i also realize that isolation affords me a bit more room for perspective and experimentation. i have been hearing a LOT of good music that doesn't toe the line, but then i am not exposed to djs playing dubstep every weekend. so i feel that i have a lot more room to go in new directions, just by virtue of not really having anyone to judge it (aside from those who can hear my sets here).

i can certainly identify with the need to want to get a crowd jumpin by playing bangers (it is a party, after all), but i can see how people immersed in a scene with parties all the time are kind of competing to see who can bang it best, ya know? i guess my perspective has always been (regardless of genre, and i have played techno, house, dnb, broken beat AND dubstep at this point), how do you stand out in a crowd of ten gerbajillion djs/producers?

for me, the answer has always been, take it in a bit of a different direction than other people. it's generally more difficult, since crowds tend to react to what they know and what gets em dancing the easiest, but i find it ten times more satisfying.

so essentially, i think there are hella interesting tunes out there, but are the djs exposing them? or are they just playing the tunes that will get a crowd jumping? at the end of the day, most people's exposure to the music is gonna come from the djs, and the dj ALWAYS has an agenda...whether it's promoting certain tunes (possibly their own), producers and labels, getting a dancefloor going, gaining notoriety for said dancefloor madness, etc. so i think it's on the djs either way you look at it. the key is taking things in interesting directions without losing the audience, isn't it? but how many people think of that when they get into spinning? they just wanna party, or push some tunes or whatnot.

this is a non-caffeinated rambling, so forgive if i am not making my point succinctly, but these are the thoughts this topic brought to mind today.