Dubstepforum.com

First of all, thanks for this thread, lots of useful information. I've been into making music for about 20 years, but although I've touched upon a lot of genres, I've never gotten into electronic music until recently. Over the course of the last 9 months or so, I've discovered that I really enjoy dubstep (and some trap, don't know if that's frowned upon around here...), and I've been an absolute idiot to discount all kinds of electronic music for most of my life.

Since discovering dubstep, I've been trying to create some tunes of my own. I find the process very different from what I'm used to when composing, especially since mixing is part of the composition process (or at least that's how it feels to me). I have a lot to learn about mixing, but I don't have any specific questions about that right now, I'm just trying to find as much information as I can, and practice, practice, practice.

I know it has been touched upon in this thread, but I'd appreciate it if some of you people with experience can describe your creative process when making a tune. Do you start with a clear idea of what you want your tune to sound like, or do you experiment with samples and different synth sounds until you find something to build on? I understand that this is gonna vary from person to person, and also that most people will not work in exactly the same way every time, but I'm still interested in reading the thoughts of more experienced people. If some of you are willing to post a track of yours with a short description of how you composed it, I'd really appreciate it.

edit: I just remembered I have another question, which is a bit simpler. Right now my setup consists of a computer with Ableton Live, a cheap midi keyboard and headphones. I know mixing with headphones is not recommended, but my living situation absolutely prohibits me from using monitors. I have been considering buying a soundcard (right now, I'm just using my computers onboard soundcard), but I'm not sure if that's important right now. I know from my guitar playing days that it's very easy to get hung up on equipment, constantly buying new stuff instead of actually working on making better music. Do you think I, as a newbie, would benefit from spending money on a soundcard, and if so: which soundcard would you recommend (preferably under 500 bucks)? My headphones are Sennheiser HD650's if that makes a difference.

I've been making music for over 2 years on average speakers and average headphones and i see no reason to spend money on something more expensive personally. but others may have different opinions.

Don't spend money on a soundcard right now imo. Just keep your basic set-up for now, its more about training your brain than any other 'gear' (just like you said). I know several professional producers that make and mix tracks purely on headphones. Its all about learning how your sound translates to other systems.

As for the creative process, also like you said, its quite different for everyone.

I'd say the most common route most of 'us' take is: start with drums/percussion. Use that as a foundation, and build from it. There are quite a few threads on it on DSF though, and you'll find arguments for both sides. At the end of the day, do what works for you.

Most of the time I'll set up a very barebones drum track, kick/snare type of thing. Then, I have a large folder that I dump samples I take from records into. I'll look through the folder, usually find an interesting sample/loop/vocal/ and chuck that into a sampler. I play with it, break it apart, put it back together, and build the tune from there. (I usually dont end up actually using the original kick/drum sounds/pattern after the tune starts to take shape)

Other times, I start with a synth line and build from there. Really just depends on my mood and the tune in question.

Good luck with your production though, glad you've found some love for electronic music.

RKM wrote:ah my ableton is massively wyling out with cpu overloads, got a track with about 12 audio bits and layers, is there anyway to stop this every time i edit something i have to give it 20 seconds to calm down : /

my laptop is peak

how much RAM? more RAM might help with that, unless your processor is really garbage

explain these musical terms?:

- RAM
- are VST just another word for plugin?
- phase
- ring mod
- limiter
- ensemble
- flanger
- rate
- treble

kaili wrote:

RKM wrote:ah my ableton is massively wyling out with cpu overloads, got a track with about 12 audio bits and layers, is there anyway to stop this every time i edit something i have to give it 20 seconds to calm down : /

my laptop is peak

how much RAM? more RAM might help with that, unless your processor is really garbage

system info says 6gb and 5.89gb available, and 372gb/465 gb available on the harddrive (don't have that much stuff on here)

it probably is a huge pile of shit, but i would hope for a bit more from this

running into an external usb soundcard, but not much else using up power, turned everything off including wifi yesterday and it was still doing it

i tried increasing buffer speed to max didn't really help

thanks for the replies, jags and andius. I will not buy a soundcard before I have an actual reason to do so, other than "maybe i need one".

Jens wrote:explain these musical terms?:

- RAM
- are VST just another word for plugin?
- phase
- ring mod
- limiter
- ensemble
- flanger
- rate
- treble

- are VST just another word for plugin?
No, vst is one of many formats/types of plugins, theres also AU (Logic, mac) RTAS, etc. All VSTs are plugins, but not all plugins are vsts.
- phase

- ring mod
A form of amplitude/volume modulation. The volume of something gets modulated by something else, usually a sine wave. If the sine wave is very low (low Hz) you will hear the volume going up and down and up and down like a tremolo, because the sinewave goes up and down. As the sinewave gets higher (Hz increases) the amplitude modulation becomes faster and it creates a very interesting effect:
<iframe src="//commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ring_Modulation-with_sweep_to_9kHz.ogg?embedplayer=yes" width="220" height="23" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe>

- ensemble
Stacked choruses (I presume you know what a chorus is, you didnt write it here). Makes sounds very thick, I use it in 90% of my songs.

- rate
=speed

- treble
Tones that are on the higher parts of the frequency response human hearing (that being all sounds from very low and bassy to very high, basically) - the counterpart/opposite of bass! Treble sounds are for example high hats and cymbals. In music this just refers to high notes though, like a female soprano or a boys choir.

Jens wrote:explain these musical terms?:

- phase
- limiter
- flanger

just to cover some that bouncingfish didn't:

phase is a property of an oscillator. it goes from 0 to 360 like degrees of a circle. it's where the oscillator begins when a note is triggered. if you've taken math courses a quick glance at this wikipedia page should ring some bells: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_%28waves%29

limiter is an effect that stops the audio from going above the volume of whichever track it's placed on. so if you put your limiter on your master track, which is at 0dB, then it the audio will never go above 0dB. if it would have naturally went above 0dB without the presence of a limiter, then the limiter will "squash" the audio, causing it to sound distorted. if the audio was never gonna go above 0dB anyway, then the limiter will have no effect. check this image: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limiting#m ... veform.svg

flanger is another audio effect that sounds sort of like a phaser. it basically takes the audio and then takes another identical sample of the audio and plays them at very short intervals, causing a similar sound to when you have a very delay time or a comb filter (actually, all 3 are technically the same thing i'm pretty sure). but then a flanger will change the length of the interval between the two signals according to an LFO speed.

Mordern wrote:First of all, thanks for this thread, lots of useful information. I've been into making music for about 20 years, but although I've touched upon a lot of genres, I've never gotten into electronic music until recently. Over the course of the last 9 months or so, I've discovered that I really enjoy dubstep (and some trap, don't know if that's frowned upon around here...), and I've been an absolute idiot to discount all kinds of electronic music for most of my life.

Since discovering dubstep, I've been trying to create some tunes of my own. I find the process very different from what I'm used to when composing, especially since mixing is part of the composition process (or at least that's how it feels to me). I have a lot to learn about mixing, but I don't have any specific questions about that right now, I'm just trying to find as much information as I can, and practice, practice, practice.

I know it has been touched upon in this thread, but I'd appreciate it if some of you people with experience can describe your creative process when making a tune. Do you start with a clear idea of what you want your tune to sound like, or do you experiment with samples and different synth sounds until you find something to build on? I understand that this is gonna vary from person to person, and also that most people will not work in exactly the same way every time, but I'm still interested in reading the thoughts of more experienced people. If some of you are willing to post a track of yours with a short description of how you composed it, I'd really appreciate it.

edit: I just remembered I have another question, which is a bit simpler. Right now my setup consists of a computer with Ableton Live, a cheap midi keyboard and headphones. I know mixing with headphones is not recommended, but my living situation absolutely prohibits me from using monitors. I have been considering buying a soundcard (right now, I'm just using my computers onboard soundcard), but I'm not sure if that's important right now. I know from my guitar playing days that it's very easy to get hung up on equipment, constantly buying new stuff instead of actually working on making better music. Do you think I, as a newbie, would benefit from spending money on a soundcard, and if so: which soundcard would you recommend (preferably under 500 bucks)? My headphones are Sennheiser HD650's if that makes a difference.

Who is your favorite dubstep producer?

Process - I think this stuff is really important. Search for my name, in the production forum, and maybe some terms like 'process' or 'workflow' or 'work flow' or 'work'. I talk about this a lot. Your process is who you are as a producer. The tools you use, the sounds you use and make, how you build your song, etc etc. But in response, I never have a complete idea of what I want to do. Usually it is a process of discovery.

The track in my sig is a couple of weeks old. Warning, not dubstep. Does anybody here still make dusbstep? Pretty rare, probably. The track started while I was in the passenger seat of my car, wife driving, on a trip to LA. Stuck in traffic. Monitoring through the car speakers. I brought out Tyrell n6 by u-he, just an incredible sounding synth. Free! I wanted to start with fx on the synth, write with the fx, something I've been trying to remember to do. A lot of times I'll set up some rev and delay busses late in the game and the fx ends up going over the track, rather than into the track, if you ghet me. So just wrote some lines. Busted out a break, which I've been trying to use more. Usually I build beats with one shot drum samples, but just trying out breaks. I never usually use breaks. Started cutting up the break, doing all kinds of edits on it. Got the track going, figured it out mostly. Got to where we were going, over the next 3 days, spent major time trying to do 3 transitions that never really worked right. Neway, hardly my normal process, but as you see, I'm always trying to remember shit, like lessons I've learned from prior work, things that I'd been meaning to try. Always a work in progress.

Soundcard... if you're not going to do monitors, fuck it.

I don't know if I can pick a favourite dubstep producer. I must admit it was a Skrillex tune (make it bun them) that got me interested in the genre, but most of his songs don't really do much for me. It's kinda difficult when you're getting into a new genre, because you don't really know where to start. I've been listening to various mixes, and I enjoy some stuff that's more brostep-oriented like Datsik and some more old-school stuff like Skream and Benga, and a lot of stuff that's somewhere inbetween.

I will look for some of your posts about the creative process, I've already gotten some enlightenment out of what you have posted in this thread. I guess the reason I ask about the creative process is because I think it's interesting how I approach song writing now that I try to make electronic music, compared to when I was doing guitar oriented stuff. There are more possibilities and more freedom, but that can also get a little overwhelming.

I've listened to the track in your sig a couple of times already and like it quite a lot. If it's not dubstep, what would you classify it as? Sometimes I think it can be hard to understand the "rules" of a genre I'm not too familiar with. You could have easily fooled me into thinking that was a dubstep tune. If someone wants to type more words, it would be interesting to see what people in this thread think are the defining characteristics of dubstep (sorry if this is discusssed elsewhere. I haven't seen it, but it seems like a topic that may have been discussed to death on a forum like this).

RKM wrote:

kaili wrote:

RKM wrote:ah my ableton is massively wyling out with cpu overloads, got a track with about 12 audio bits and layers, is there anyway to stop this every time i edit something i have to give it 20 seconds to calm down : /

my laptop is peak

how much RAM? more RAM might help with that, unless your processor is really garbage

system info says 6gb and 5.89gb available, and 372gb/465 gb available on the harddrive (don't have that much stuff on here)

it probably is a huge pile of shit, but i would hope for a bit more from this

more RAM than me so it shouldnt be that, hdd size shouldnt matter either. possibly the processor then in which case theres not much you can do there other than getting a new pc lol.
if the processor is a good one then idk, maybe youre just using bare plugins that use loads of CPU up or you have a virus but then everything would be going slow not just ur DAW.
possibly could be the usb soundcard if its not an interface and just a shitty usb one, but i doubt it since i recall my cubase working just as well before i got an interface.
and @ the guy asking what RAM is, not a musical term, refers to random access memory in your computer, jus google it

safe, i haven't downloaded any plugins yet (are the preinstalled effects plugins), i did use a lot of effects and there's a lot of audio tracks (i think theres about 12...my planning is not amazing, i try and put variations on different tracks so that changing one bit of effects wont change all of it) and almost everything is samples, i'll try and work on cutting this back

the harddrive i have had to replace and i suspect there's still something not quite right about the motherboard, and the fan sounds like an airplane taking off a lot of the time

but still, it makes me wonder a bit, i'd hope it'd be able to handle this, cos it questions whether i'll be able to make more complex shit in the future

Mordern wrote:Sometimes I think it can be hard to understand the "rules" of a genre I'm not too familiar with.

A genre, of course, is a set of rules, or similarities between works. But where we are in dubstep now, rules are utter shit. Dubstep got solved. The rules became too concrete. You NEED to have this or that, etc. What we need now is more rule breaking, or people who are unaware of the rules. Just make beat structures, sounds, textures, emotional experiences that resonate with you. I promise you, I really do, there are thousands of producers way way in another league, or several leagues beyond your ability level, musical skill, whatever, who are making uninteresting imitative shit that is meaningless, and unlistened to. If you are to have any chance at all, you must find what is relevant to you, and get good at doing it.

solved

awesome

Hi there, this is my first post! I'm new to dubstep production, only been attempting it for a few months. I'm now getting more into the sound design, and its so daunting at first haha. My question is, how do you change the vowel sounds in your bassline? I think this is a good example of what I'm asking for, the drop is around 2:40
Kill The Noise - Kill The Noise (Part 1) [HQ]: http://youtu.be/cyiB_rkob8o

Thanks for your help, I greatly appreciate it!
PS. I'm using FL Studio 11

GravityDamage wrote:Hi there, this is my first post! I'm new to dubstep production, only been attempting it for a few months. I'm now getting more into the sound design, and its so daunting at first haha. My question is, how do you change the vowel sounds in your bassline? I think this is a good example of what I'm asking for, the drop is around 2:40
Kill The Noise - Kill The Noise (Part 1) [HQ]: http://youtu.be/cyiB_rkob8o

Thanks for your help, I greatly appreciate it!
PS. I'm using FL Studio 11

Unable to listen to the song you linked, but I think formant fliters are what you're looking for. I don't know FL studio at all, so I dunno if it has a stock formant filter or whatever it would be called, but it shouldn't be too hard to find one I suppose.

You could try this article to get a grasp on formant synthesis.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar01/a ... nthsec.asp

In all honesty, formants were never something I had the time/want to mess around with, so my understanding of them goes little beyond theory.
Let me know if I totally missed the point and this wasn't helpful

RKM wrote:safe, i haven't downloaded any plugins yet (are the preinstalled effects plugins), i did use a lot of effects and there's a lot of audio tracks (i think theres about 12...my planning is not amazing, i try and put variations on different tracks so that changing one bit of effects wont change all of it) and almost everything is samples, i'll try and work on cutting this back

the harddrive i have had to replace and i suspect there's still something not quite right about the motherboard, and the fan sounds like an airplane taking off a lot of the time

but still, it makes me wonder a bit, i'd hope it'd be able to handle this, cos it questions whether i'll be able to make more complex shit in the future

If my memory serves me correctly, you are using Ableton right?

You can save a lot of CPU by utilizing ableton's Send feature.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3ad-KHbitE

andius wrote:

RKM wrote:safe, i haven't downloaded any plugins yet (are the preinstalled effects plugins), i did use a lot of effects and there's a lot of audio tracks (i think theres about 12...my planning is not amazing, i try and put variations on different tracks so that changing one bit of effects wont change all of it) and almost everything is samples, i'll try and work on cutting this back

the harddrive i have had to replace and i suspect there's still something not quite right about the motherboard, and the fan sounds like an airplane taking off a lot of the time

but still, it makes me wonder a bit, i'd hope it'd be able to handle this, cos it questions whether i'll be able to make more complex shit in the future

If my memory serves me correctly, you are using Ableton right?

You can save a lot of CPU by utilizing ableton's Send feature.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3ad-KHbitE

if you are worried about "complexity" tho you should have differnet verbs atleast on ur different instruments, im pretty sure thats actually the "right" way to do it?