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if it's not predictable, that means it follows no discernable pattern, which really makes it not music at all, but noise.

discernable pattern = predictable. perhaps YOU cannot predict it, but that's like saying calculus isn't math because you can't solve for it.

seckle wrote:

kaib0rg wrote:HELLO, ALL DUBSTEP IS PREDICTABLE.

no

early horsepower, kode 9 , digital mystikz and a load of others were completely unpredictable.

completely unpredictable sound is noise.

It's not about song structure it's a few things:

1. sounds.

2. patterns.

3. melodies/harmonies.

4. build up to drop.

As an example look at Mala and Loefah's early work. No white noise sweeps, no ascending noises usually just some silence before the drop and that made the music dynamic and expressive, as appose to this song and D'n'B which just strives to be loud (compression and full on sounds).
Now look at kryptic minds. The sounds the use are pretty far from what i'd expect to hear in Dubstep, i.e. he made a drum out of hitting a stick on a tree. They are proof that dance music can be experimental, interesting, emotional, and still dancable.
All music eventually becomes predictable, that's how your brain and ears work, but think about new artists who create something you've never heard before.... it's still possible.
In an interview with Nero i saw they said "it's easy to be original in Dubstep because it's a fairly new genre"...... well if it's so easy then why can't they do it...... about 70% of their productions are remixes and they use the same sounds, which are fairly generic in my opinion. There is absolutely nothing original about their music, and that's fair enough if they just want to be another set of producers, but don't go on like you've done something no one else has.

steshine wrote:It's not about song structure it's a few things:

1. sounds.

2. patterns.

3. melodies/harmonies.

4. build up to drop.

As an example look at Mala and Loefah's early work. No white noise sweeps, no ascending noises usually just some silence before the drop and that made the music dynamic and expressive, as appose to this song and D'n'B which just strives to be loud (compression and full on sounds).
Now look at kryptic minds. The sounds the use are pretty far from what i'd expect to hear in Dubstep, i.e. he made a drum out of hitting a stick on a tree. They are proof that dance music can be experimental, interesting, emotional, and still dancable.
All music eventually becomes predictable, that's how your brain and ears work, but think about new artists who create something you've never heard before.... it's still possible.
In an interview with Nero i saw they said "it's easy to be original in Dubstep because it's a fairly new genre"...... well if it's so easy then why can't they do it...... about 70% of their productions are remixes and they use the same sounds, which are fairly generic in my opinion. There is absolutely nothing original about their music, and that's fair enough if they just want to be another set of producers, but don't go on like you've done something no one else has.

alright, i was noting predictability as the timing of a track. when you hear a beat 3 times and know that same beat is going to come a 4th time--that's predictability. when you hear a song composed of 4bar phrases, you know the next element will drop in or out on that 17th (or 1st) measure. that's predictability and not only does all music have it by definition, but dubsteps use of it is ridiculously simplistic (not a bad thing, it's just very easy to predict, making it very danceable at the same time).

meanwhile, 10 pages about how a song shouldnt be remixed is quite ridiculous so i havent read every post, but did nero really say they've done something that no one else has? i'm not going to argue whether they have or not (that's their job...if they said that), but really...have they? or are words being put into their mouths?

kaib0rg wrote:lol @ nero's tracks being predictable. HELLO, ALL DUBSTEP IS PREDICTABLE. almost every track uses the exact same structure!!!

not saying it's good or bad, but to say nero is any more predictable than anyone else in the dubstep game (perhaps barring breakcore-turned-dubstep producers and lebelgeelectrod) is rubbish.

count the timing. hear the arrangement. listen for the builds and drops. 99% the same in every notable dubstep track.

O TO BE A TROLL, TROLLING FORUMS FOR A LIVING, NOT KNOWING ANYTHING..

to respond to a troll, in caps - irony.

seriously though, did you actually read back your reply??

ALL DUBSTEP IS PREDICTABLE

are you joking me, even despite the point seckle made, are you going to say the same about Shackleton? Jamie Vex'd?? Sigha??

No you wont, because all the JUMP UP SHIT you listen to sounds the same, and while im on the subject, the 'Main' producers everyone speaks about now, arent the 'Main' producers anymore, oh no

deamonds wrote:seriously though, did you actually read back your reply??

ALL DUBSTEP IS PREDICTABLE

are you joking me, even despite the point seckle made, are you going to say the same about Shackleton? Jamie Vex'd?? Sigha??

No you wont, because all the JUMP UP SHIT you listen to sounds the same, and while im on the subject, the 'Main' producers everyone speaks about now, arent the 'Main' producers anymore, oh no

music is based on timing. once you know that timing, the arrangement of the sounds and when they come in and drop out becomes PREDICTABLE. doesn't matter who you are. it's even prevalent in the most ridiculously complex breakcore tracks. theyre still based on math which makes them predictable. that's the kind of predictability i was referring to.

once again, if you can't predict it, that's on you. it must be nice to always be surprised when listening to such simplistically arranged music. don't even listen to idm, your head might just explode.

You are obviously a skeptical person regarding music, and if you see 'music' in that much of a clinical sense, id stop listening if I were you...

kaib0rg wrote:

deamonds wrote:seriously though, did you actually read back your reply??

ALL DUBSTEP IS PREDICTABLE

are you joking me, even despite the point seckle made, are you going to say the same about Shackleton? Jamie Vex'd?? Sigha??

No you wont, because all the JUMP UP SHIT you listen to sounds the same, and while im on the subject, the 'Main' producers everyone speaks about now, arent the 'Main' producers anymore, oh no

music is based on timing. once you know that timing, the arrangement of the sounds and when they come in and drop out becomes PREDICTABLE. doesn't matter who you are. it's even prevalent in the most ridiculously complex breakcore tracks. theyre still based on math which makes them predictable. that's the kind of predictability i was referring to.

once again, if you can't predict it, that's on you. it must be nice to always be surprised when listening to such simplistically arranged music. don't even listen to idm, your head might just explode.

your missing the bigger picture here.

whats fucked about predictable music is that you start conditioning the audience to respond to it. they know when to jump up, when to calm down, and when to clap. its entertainment, and when it becomes about pure entertainment, the notion of presenting music to people, and taking them on a journey or creating a statement as a dj goes right out the window, and what gets replaced is giving the "punters" what they want, and how they want it. ???? what happened to mystery in music? at that point its becomes a culture of spoonfed sound. you might as well put on an ipod and playlist the crowd.

sorry but that's not what it used to be about. the best underground dj's played what they wanted, and how they wanted it played. if you were in it then it was amazing, and if you weren't feeling it, you'd wait for the next set to come in. listen to dj randall tapes, or any of the early bluenote sessions. listen to the early rinsefm youngsta recordings. it was uncharted territory at that point in the sound.

listen to horsepower "classic deluxe" or kode 9 "ping".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01VRIebcCG4

by the way...

play this...instead

im definitely missing the bigger picture that you're referring to because from the get-go i thought this predictability element was in reference to structural predictability--which it wasnt.

i've always viewed the dj as someone who is in tune with the crowd. not some egomaniac dropping their favourite tracks, hoping the crowd likes them to.

kaib0rg wrote:im definitely missing the bigger picture that you're referring to because from the get-go i thought this predictability element was in reference to structural predictability--which it wasnt.

i've always viewed the dj as someone who is in tune with the crowd. not some egomaniac dropping their favourite tracks, hoping the crowd likes them to.

its got nothing to do with egomania. its about journeys, and mind expansion. for every 15 people in an audience that want to rave their tits off and be spoonfed, there's about 30 people that want their lives changed for an hour or more.

seckle wrote:

kaib0rg wrote:im definitely missing the bigger picture that you're referring to because from the get-go i thought this predictability element was in reference to structural predictability--which it wasnt.

i've always viewed the dj as someone who is in tune with the crowd. not some egomaniac dropping their favourite tracks, hoping the crowd likes them to.

its got nothing to do with egomania. its about journeys, and mind expansion. for every 15 people in an audience that want to rave their tits off and be spoonfed, there's about 30 people that want their lives changed for an hour or more.

we live in very different scenes my friend. for better or worse, nero's remix would annihiliate a dancefloor at a chicago underground, the original would put people to sleep. reverse the two in the club scene.

i'm not quite sure any dubstep set, ever, could "change my life." that's probly just me though, and hell...i dj the shit.

kaib0rg wrote:

seckle wrote:

kaib0rg wrote:im definitely missing the bigger picture that you're referring to because from the get-go i thought this predictability element was in reference to structural predictability--which it wasnt.

i've always viewed the dj as someone who is in tune with the crowd. not some egomaniac dropping their favourite tracks, hoping the crowd likes them to.

its got nothing to do with egomania. its about journeys, and mind expansion. for every 15 people in an audience that want to rave their tits off and be spoonfed, there's about 30 people that want their lives changed for an hour or more.

we live in very different scenes my friend. for better or worse, nero's remix would annihiliate a dancefloor at a chicago underground, the original would put people to sleep. reverse the two in the club scene.

i'm not quite sure any dubstep set, ever, could "change my life." that's probly just me though, and hell...i dj the shit.

the original tore down every UKG club in the UK for a year or more. the original "sincere" was an anthem. and yes, obviously we live in different sounds, because i don't agree with most of what you said.

kaib0rg wrote: for worse, nero's remix would annihiliate a dancefloor at a chicago underground, the original would put people to sleep

its definately for worse, sad state of affairs...

kaib0rg wrote: the original would put people to sleep

i've resisted the temptation to get involved in this (rather silly) thread, but thats a statement nailing your colours to a flag if ever i've heard one. oh dear

seckle wrote:

kaib0rg wrote:

seckle wrote:

kaib0rg wrote:im definitely missing the bigger picture that you're referring to because from the get-go i thought this predictability element was in reference to structural predictability--which it wasnt.

i've always viewed the dj as someone who is in tune with the crowd. not some egomaniac dropping their favourite tracks, hoping the crowd likes them to.

its got nothing to do with egomania. its about journeys, and mind expansion. for every 15 people in an audience that want to rave their tits off and be spoonfed, there's about 30 people that want their lives changed for an hour or more.

we live in very different scenes my friend. for better or worse, nero's remix would annihiliate a dancefloor at a chicago underground, the original would put people to sleep. reverse the two in the club scene.

i'm not quite sure any dubstep set, ever, could "change my life." that's probly just me though, and hell...i dj the shit.

the original tore down every UKG club in the UK for a year or more. the original "sincere" was an anthem. and yes, obviously we live in different sounds, because i don't agree with most of what you said.

all i've said in this thread was music is based on math. gimme a fuckin break. you're disagreeing to disagree or you dont know jack shit about music composition.

i said we live in different SCENES. wtf does my underground edm scene have to do with music having discernable pattens?

I think its a case of whether you like souless, wobble, hedache music...or whether you have a functioning ears & brain

kingthing wrote:

kaib0rg wrote: the original would put people to sleep

i've resisted the temptation to get involved in this (rather silly) thread, but thats a statement nailing your colours to a flag if ever i've heard one. oh dear

2step just doesnt get played in our underground circuit. i like the original track, but that doesn't mean it wouldnt stick out like a sore thumb amongst the rest of the music played at our parties.