sub-bass help

[grooki]

this is a mystery which I still grapple with

[decklyn]

you're probably also having some phasing w/ the stacked sine's. try simplifying your waveforms.

Been having the same problem in one of my tunes and this was the problem, funny how 1 sine is actually a fair bit louder than 2!

Cheers mate.

The RMS is identical but because you have a binaural beat which has twice the velocity of your two waveforms, you need to turn it down so that the peak is at 0, which means you actually half the RMS volume and you'll have all of these quiet spots. In addition, the farther you go away from the other tone the more obviously detuned it will sound which can be hard to match to other elements.
I stand by saying that your sub bass should be a sine for maximum chest impact.
I would do all of the cool binaural beat play in higher frequencies adding whacked out saturation to the mix.
Just layer a pure sine underneath all of it for maximum chest impact.

[safeandsound]

It could be cancellations in the synthesizer waveforms and it could be
that you are sitting where there happens to be room cancellations at the problem frequency.

Try moving to a different position in the room (try 2 ft intervals) and this will determine
whether it's the synth or the room. It is unlikely to be specifically a monitor problem.

Or try a set of headphones and see if it still happens with cans on.

In an untreated room, low frequency response can have a 30dB window (not +/-) of innacuracy,
with large quantites of treatment you should be able to achieve a window of 10dB or less.

Judging bass in an untreated room is very difficult.

[nowaysj]

Have stood up into a bass node, holy cow was it loud.

Q re treatment - will a very cluttered back wall (facing monitors) create enough diffusion to interrupt nodes and anti nodes. I know absorption is the name of the game, but am wondering how much diffusion can do.

[macc]

Have stood up into a bass node, holy cow was it loud.

Q re treatment - will a very cluttered back wall (facing monitors) create enough diffusion to interrupt nodes and anti nodes. I know absorption is the name of the game, but am wondering how much diffusion can do.

At low frequencies in a small room; fuck all

[mistayif]

thanks for all the tips guys, will post up the tune when i'm done with it.

i think i may try moving the monitors to see if the bass response is any different, do corners make a lot of difference even in an untreated room?

[lojik]

thanks for all the tips guys, will post up the tune when i'm done with it.

i think i may try moving the monitors to see if the bass response is any different, do corners make a lot of difference even in an untreated room?

Fuck yes, probably more so. Stick your speakers in a corner and you will notice a HUGE difference.

It's worth knowing where the natural bassy points in your room are though becuase it makes mixing sub easier if your speakers can't replicate it properly, i.e. for 2 years at uni I had to stick my head in my wardrobe to mix sub bass.

[Sharmaji]

the more you can basstrap your corners, the more balanced your freq response across the spectrum will be.

a bookshelf, etc on your backwall can definitely help w/ diffusion, but won't make much of a difference below your low mids (200-400hz or so).

full-on low frequency waves take dozens of feet to travel 1 entire wavelength-- trapping and cutting them off is the only way to get something resembling balance in a small room.

--written from my 9x12x9 room. ugh.

[mistayif]

so are you saying its good to have your speakers in corners? i always thought this was a bad idea

[Sharmaji]

^ not saying that at all. saying that, if you're going to treat anything in your room, corners are a good place to start.

[mistayif]

ok, so where would you say would be the best place to put nearfield monitors in an untreated room? i've always thought that corners should be avoided as they would create a build of bass and this would give an inaccurate representation of the true bass being outputed

sorry about all the questions, i'm not particularly clued up about by sound design topics

[lojik]

In an untreated room it wont make much difference where you put them as long as they are away from walls/corners and you have placed them properly in relation to where you are listening from. the triangle rule is a good place to start (making a triangle of you + your monitors) but yea if your room isn't treated anyway don't worry too much about measuring exact distances where to put them, just put them a good foot or 2 away from walls.

[mistayif]

In an untreated room it wont make much difference where you put them as long as they are away from walls/corners and you have placed them properly in relation to where you are listening from. the triangle rule is a good place to start (making a triangle of you + your monitors) but yea if your room isn't treated anyway don't worry too much about measuring exact distances where to put them, just put them a good foot or 2 away from walls.

cheers for the advice man. well placing monitors a foot or two away from me is not a possibilty right now as my uni only has a built in desk which is against the wall. i've found that by standing at the back of my room, i hear a more even bass sound with less fluctuations in volume so i guess thats where i'll have to do my bass mixdowns for now

[macc]

In an untreated room it wont make much difference where you put them as long as they are away from walls/corners and you have placed them properly in relation to where you are listening from. the triangle rule is a good place to start (making a triangle of you + your monitors) but yea if your room isn't treated anyway don't worry too much about measuring exact distances where to put them, just put them a good foot or 2 away from walls.

Bar the listening postion bit, this is very poor advice and incorrect. Positioning of speakers in the room is arguably THE most important factor in the whole game, equalled only by listening position (which you do mention, so sorry being a bitch). The speakers and the room are part of a complete system. How you stimulate the room is an absolutely fundamental and key factor.

It's like saying a drum sounds the same wherever you hit it on the drum head, so long as you don't hit the rim. It doesn't, at all.

EDIT - To clarify; this relates primarily to low frequency response/smoothness. Then there are higher freqs and imaging to consider, which is where the listening position gets 'tied down' a certain amount, generally the equilateral triangle is the perceived wisdom (but it depends who you believe). Point is that all these factors have to be carefully measured and balanced, with compromises reached in order to find the best places for everything. Everything depends on everything else.

[nowaysj]

Thing with the bass though, you will have nodes in different places for a 40hz vs 6ohz sine sub. So best to listen to a bunch of recordings of good bass music to get a feel for your room, and then try your mixes out in every possible location, only way to be safe, as has been said 44323424 times so far on dsf

[grooki]

seeing as it looks like a nightmare to get accurate monitoring in our bedrooms (for sub anyway), are headphones the way to go?

[lojik]

In an untreated room it wont make much difference where you put them as long as they are away from walls/corners and you have placed them properly in relation to where you are listening from. the triangle rule is a good place to start (making a triangle of you + your monitors) but yea if your room isn't treated anyway don't worry too much about measuring exact distances where to put them, just put them a good foot or 2 away from walls.

Bar the listening postion bit, this is very poor advice and incorrect. Positioning of speakers in the room is arguably THE most important factor in the whole game, equalled only by listening position (which you do mention, so sorry being a bitch). The speakers and the room are part of a complete system. How you stimulate the room is an absolutely fundamental and key factor.

It's like saying a drum sounds the same wherever you hit it on the drum head, so long as you don't hit the rim. It doesn't, at all.

EDIT - To clarify; this relates primarily to low frequency response/smoothness. Then there are higher freqs and imaging to consider, which is where the listening position gets 'tied down' a certain amount, generally the equilateral triangle is the perceived wisdom (but it depends who you believe). Point is that all these factors have to be carefully measured and balanced, with compromises reached in order to find the best places for everything. Everything depends on everything else.

Yea what I meant was although it does make a difference and would be very important setting up correctly in a studio, if its in a bedroom with untreated walls, you're NEVER going to get a great response so don't worry too much about getting it perfect, for me I found it easier putting them in a convenient place and then learning the response. Obviously they still can't be up against a wall or the response will be completely distorted.

Thats all I meant as it was my opinion of how to best set up a bedroom studio, I know thats probably not the best way to do it but thats how I've always done it and I can mix on my monitors fine. Bigs ups macc on knowing so much about this sort of stuff though, I have progressed more in the last few months by reading his guides than I have since I first started.

[rook]

hey, some good stuff in this thread!
I was wondering if you're including the back wall (behind monitors) when you say at least 2 ft or so from every wall.

[nowaysj]

yep

[Depone]

should add this to the mixing and mastering thread.