Dubstepforum.com

hurlingdervish wrote:Changing keys= AWWW FUCK ITS THE SAME PART AGAIN SLIGHTLY HIGHERR

dont do it


changing scales....

if you wanted to get technical, each chord in the song has a specific scale attached to it, but 90 percent of the time its the same scale as you started with but starting on a different note.

in layman's terms
really just use the notes make up each chord and maybe pitch up or down a couple in the riff to make it interesting.

key changes can be really effective if used properly, for example a key change to a relative minor or to a relative major can add to the song greatly.

you dont need to change the scale you are using for each chord, although it can be effective to orientate the melody or bassline around the arpeggio of the chord that is being played. Sometimes in blues it is necessary to change scale; if it is a 12 bar blues played with all dominant 7th chords and you were playing a mixolydian mode (for example) over the top of it, you would have to play the mixolydian of the chord that you were on. This is because essentially there can't be multiple dominant 7th chords in one key, so it is necessary to change the mode scale to keep with the chords. this is only the case with modes though as far as i know - if you were to play the same blues with a pentatonic scale you would only need to use the pentatonic scale of the key that you are in.

hurlingdervish wrote:Changing keys= AWWW FUCK ITS THE SAME PART AGAIN SLIGHTLY HIGHERR

dont do it

??????????

Why not? A modulated theme can be very effective, especially with most dance music that never changes keys.

EZ

I come from a classically trained background, and honestly, sometimes I wish I didn't. Nothing beats just sitting down and playing and just seeing what works, screw rules, if it sounds good to you, then that's all that matters. Of course it comes in useful sometimes when composing a track, but most of the time I just have in my head what I should do, rather than just rolling with an idea. It sucks

A quick note on key changes. Key changes are brilliant in a track, it keeps it interesting and lends itself well to a more epic journey like feeling through a track, but you have to be clever. I think that the key changes in pop songs are complete shite, shifting the tune up a fifth IS a lame way of rehashing the same part... but in more complex pieces (I'm going back to classical now), key changes really give the piece depth and often change many times throughout one track.

I suppose it all boils down to what you're making, if you're making hype stuff, then belting through a fistful of keychanges in a few minutes is going to sound naff, but if you're working on that 12 minute brooding melodic epic, then go for it.

To wrap it up (I may be a little intoxicated ); just play whatever feels right and trust in your own judgement.

you know more then me. no clue what dminor or any of the terms mean. i just press the keys on midi till i have sumthin that sounds good. YEYEYE

s i c k b o y wrote:

Depone wrote:

marshy wrote:

Depone wrote:

tavravlavish wrote:write all your songs in C flat bro thats the best root note ever, makes your bass sound fat

Thats complete nonsense, its relative to the room / speakers your making the track in. C flat might sound biiig to you, but in someone elses space it might be F sharp... Getme?

Think he was joking, C flat doesn't exist.

It does in some musical notation, depends on the key and stuff

Im trying to work out which scale it would exist in, but I can't think of any... I thought of A Aeolian at first but the b3 would just make it C natural rather than the C# usually in A major.

If he was joking about C flat then now i seem silly but i proper cant understand sarcasm on an internet forum its just not the same...

I dunno, you clearly know a lot more music theory than i do. I was just told in a lecture that a sharp can be a flat and ish... but now lookin at it, yeah C flat isnt possable cause there are no semi-tones next to it... is that right??

Yeah, there is a C flat but often people like to think of it's enharmonic spelling of B because it's a more widely used chord. C flat would be in the key of G flat (which is another chord which will often get an enharmonic spelling of F #). I know this shit seems complicated, but it's really just a language for people to communicate in the vernacular with each other. Don't get caught up in all the rules, just do what sounds good. I came up learning jazz and often the only reason to know theory is to know when to break the rules and why you are doing it and to be able to replicate it when needed rather than just fumbling around. I don't know if that make sense or not, but I'm improvising...

Here is a circle of 5th's chart where you can see the enharmonic relationships.

http://www.mariadewi.com/wordpress/wp-c ... fifths.jpg

Depone wrote:

tavravlavish wrote:write all your songs in C flat bro thats the best root note ever, makes your bass sound fat

Thats complete nonsense, its relative to the room / speakers your making the track in. C flat might sound biiig to you, but in someone elses space it might be F sharp... Getme?

the fact that you didnt get that was a joke is kinda weird.

and yes, it was complete nonsense.... OR WHAT IS?!?

Your an actual knob

i rarely stay in one key... i find using all 12 notes (as well as ones in between) can help to get more interesting moods and keep the ear interested

Its all about the atonal and microtonal scales.

Depone wrote:Your an actual knob

whats a knob? is it a dick? like 36mafia's slob on my knob song?

tavravlavish wrote:

Depone wrote:Your an actual knob

whats a knob? is it a dick? like 36mafia's slob on my knob song?

Yeah its a dick, but i was saying it in jhest. dont take me seriously

mks wrote:Yeah, there is a C flat but often people like to think of it's enharmonic spelling of B because it's a more widely used chord. C flat would be in the key of G flat (which is another chord which will often get an enharmonic spelling of F #). I know this shit seems complicated, but it's really just a language for people to communicate in the vernacular with each other. Don't get caught up in all the rules, just do what sounds good. I came up learning jazz and often the only reason to know theory is to know when to break the rules and why you are doing it and to be able to replicate it when needed rather than just fumbling around. I don't know if that make sense or not, but I'm improvising...

Here is a circle of 5th's chart where you can see the enharmonic relationships.

http://www.mariadewi.com/wordpress/wp-c ... fifths.jpg

ya true Gb major would be: Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F Gb i think
to be honest if you are composing dubstep then you can probably get away with thinking of it as B, not Cb.

narcissus wrote:i rarely stay in one key... i find using all 12 notes (as well as ones in between) can help to get more interesting moods and keep the ear interested

12 notes and the ones in between? there are only 12 notes in an octave:

C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G#, A, A#, B
(i left out enharmonic equivalents to make it easier to read)

If you are using random notes until it sounds good you are probably falling into a scale of some sort, you just didn't theoretically plan to. I don't think I'v ever heard an atonal dubstep tune, but there could well be one with some mental jazz influence haha.

Crazy key changing going on there.

s i c k b o y wrote:

mks wrote:Yeah, there is a C flat but often people like to think of it's enharmonic spelling of B because it's a more widely used chord. C flat would be in the key of G flat (which is another chord which will often get an enharmonic spelling of F #). I know this shit seems complicated, but it's really just a language for people to communicate in the vernacular with each other. Don't get caught up in all the rules, just do what sounds good. I came up learning jazz and often the only reason to know theory is to know when to break the rules and why you are doing it and to be able to replicate it when needed rather than just fumbling around. I don't know if that make sense or not, but I'm improvising...

Here is a circle of 5th's chart where you can see the enharmonic relationships.

http://www.mariadewi.com/wordpress/wp-c ... fifths.jpg

ya true Gb major would be: Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F Gb i think
to be honest if you are composing dubstep then you can probably get away with thinking of it as B, not Cb.

narcissus wrote:i rarely stay in one key... i find using all 12 notes (as well as ones in between) can help to get more interesting moods and keep the ear interested

12 notes and the ones in between? there are only 12 notes in an octave:

C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G#, A, A#, B
(i left out enharmonic equivalents to make it easier to read)

If you are using random notes until it sounds good you are probably falling into a scale of some sort, you just didn't theoretically plan to. I don't think I'v ever heard an atonal dubstep tune, but there could well be one with some mental jazz influence haha.

lol.... so you've never heard of pitch bend? :p

i don't just use random notes for basslines... they definitely have rhyme and reason, it's just that i've moved beyond thinking in one major/minor key. i might start with an F#, then slide up to C, then D, then down to C# to let it sit on the fifth for a while, before sliding up to F natural and creating some tension, then quickly up to G and then down a half step to F#... then slide down the octave back to where i started. when you get that weird slidy-ass bass bangin, it feels like the notes are coming out of the speakers and carressing you...

s i c k b o y wrote:

hurlingdervish wrote:Changing keys= AWWW FUCK ITS THE SAME PART AGAIN SLIGHTLY HIGHERR

dont do it


changing scales....

if you wanted to get technical, each chord in the song has a specific scale attached to it, but 90 percent of the time its the same scale as you started with but starting on a different note.

in layman's terms
really just use the notes make up each chord and maybe pitch up or down a couple in the riff to make it interesting.

key changes can be really effective if used properly, for example a key change to a relative minor or to a relative major can add to the song greatly.

you dont need to change the scale you are using for each chord, although it can be effective to orientate the melody or bassline around the arpeggio of the chord that is being played. Sometimes in blues it is necessary to change scale; if it is a 12 bar blues played with all dominant 7th chords and you were playing a mixolydian mode (for example) over the top of it, you would have to play the mixolydian of the chord that you were on. This is because essentially there can't be multiple dominant 7th chords in one key, so it is necessary to change the mode scale to keep with the chords. this is only the case with modes though as far as i know - if you were to play the same blues with a pentatonic scale you would only need to use the pentatonic scale of the key that you are in.

great post.

youthful_implants wrote:

s i c k b o y wrote:

hurlingdervish wrote:Changing keys= AWWW FUCK ITS THE SAME PART AGAIN SLIGHTLY HIGHERR

dont do it


changing scales....

if you wanted to get technical, each chord in the song has a specific scale attached to it, but 90 percent of the time its the same scale as you started with but starting on a different note.

in layman's terms
really just use the notes make up each chord and maybe pitch up or down a couple in the riff to make it interesting.

key changes can be really effective if used properly, for example a key change to a relative minor or to a relative major can add to the song greatly.

you dont need to change the scale you are using for each chord, although it can be effective to orientate the melody or bassline around the arpeggio of the chord that is being played. Sometimes in blues it is necessary to change scale; if it is a 12 bar blues played with all dominant 7th chords and you were playing a mixolydian mode (for example) over the top of it, you would have to play the mixolydian of the chord that you were on. This is because essentially there can't be multiple dominant 7th chords in one key, so it is necessary to change the mode scale to keep with the chords. this is only the case with modes though as far as i know - if you were to play the same blues with a pentatonic scale you would only need to use the pentatonic scale of the key that you are in.

great post.

nice one, i wasnt sure if anyone would get it i may have just been rabbling on about blues a bit there haha