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relik wrote:Vinyl and acetates only aside from dubs I didn't get cut yet, then it's serato or cd for those few tunes. Most people I've seen use abelton don't play it like a live pa. It's all prebuilt playlists with the tracks "warped" and auto beatmatched perfectly (no headphones needed) then just a controller to trigger parts of the playlist with knobs mapped to effects like filters and whatnot. Minimal skill needed for that. Don't get me wrong though, you can do some original shit and push the limits if you want, but most use it as a lazy-no-skill-required-dj tool. I've seen a couple people on cdjs do every single mix-out with effects (primarily delay loops), have the next tune cued up on a drop, and when the delay starts "glitching" they just cut it out, hit play and drop the next tune - another lazy way to avoid beatmatching. 99% of the people I see use serato are visual mixing instead of actually listening or knowing their tunes. A guy I know sold his serato because it was turning him into a visual dj.

I'm going off on a tangent here, but what it comes down to is whether you want to be a purist or not. With the technology today, anyone can be a dj without having any skill at all. Everything can be perfectly beatmatched, cued and looped for you. Do you want to be just another mp3/visual dj or do you want to keep the real tradition with vinyl alive? I think it's good to know how to use everything just so you can if you wanted or had to, but stay away from the "cheater tools" unless you are doing some mind blowing shit with them.

I put my time (over 14 years) being a purist, then i realized that shit changes and i prefer to do real live pa(s) now.

I find a lot of the people that speak out against people using cdjs or ableton to DJ often can't dj for shit themselves. I don't particular like people DJing in ableton and wouldn't do it myself but if it sounds good, I could careless, any DJ should be able to beatmatch so...

relik wrote:

Beatfreak919 wrote:have you seen bassnectar play live?

No, but I heard he isn't very good...talks too much and just stops the music a lot. I could care less about what other people use as long as they are rocking it. I just can't get into a groove when a set is primarily pre-planned and nothing is going on except some occasional filter sweeps and other effects. I don't think people who play vinyl only are all gung-ho, elitist or "showing off" how wonderfully they can beat match either. It doesn't really require a lot of effort or time...only ears. It's just part of playing vinyl and beat matching is like riding a bike. 99% of the time I play out I have no idea what records I am playing, let alone have even listened to them prior. Being able to read a crowd and build your set on the fly is what it's all about. I'd like to see more people push the limits and do 100% live percussion chopping with live triggered loops, etc. but a lot of people using a setup that would allow them to do that and get creative take the easy way out. Props to those being creative with what they have instead of being lazy.

You need to get out and see some better live pa(s) homey. 100% of the time when i play out I have no idea where I am going with it, and thats because I haven't limited myself to a singular medium.

sometimes, its full live pa, some times, its decks, efx and a drum machine, who knows, maybe a combo of all of them. get over the fact that people are starting to DJ in ableton, it won't kill the vinyl culture, they won't take your gigs unless they are better than you. Just keep doing what you do and stop caring about the posers. They will sort themselves out as one trick ponies.

relik wrote:

Beatfreak919 wrote:have you seen bassnectar play live?

No, but I heard he isn't very good...talks too much and just stops the music a lot. I could care less about what other people use as long as they are rocking it. I just can't get into a groove when a set is primarily pre-planned and nothing is going on except some occasional filter sweeps and other effects. I don't think people who play vinyl only are all gung-ho, elitist or "showing off" how wonderfully they can beat match either. It doesn't really require a lot of effort or time...only ears. It's just part of playing vinyl and beat matching is like riding a bike. 99% of the time I play out I have no idea what records I am playing, let alone have even listened to them prior. Being able to read a crowd and build your set on the fly is what it's all about. I'd like to see more people push the limits and do 100% live percussion chopping with live triggered loops, etc. but a lot of people using a setup that would allow them to do that and get creative take the easy way out. Props to those being creative with what they have instead of being lazy.

'
highly recommend making it to one of his shows, he barely ever talks actually unless its just telling people not to throw water and shit ....but man he kills it harder than any MUSICIAN i've ever seen, and most of his shit is original, besides his remixes and mashes obviously. abut his sets (and each individual song) is ALWAYS different in some way, i don't know his exact technique but i know bassnectar plays LIVE shows.....aaaaanywayz, my beats are 100% chopped drum loops, all triggered by launchpad, then all samples, grooves, synths, pads also triggered by launchpad so i can literally play any synth with any sample with any kick, snare, hi hat, or percussion or WHATEVER, all live, not pre-planned. oppurtunities are endless, and extremely fun. beatmatching is kind of a waste of time these days honestly. but not even listening to your records before a show...thats just CRRRRRAZZZYYY.

Usually I use CDJs, but lately i've been having fun mangling in ableton live with a midi controller. still getting sorted for doing more of a live pa though. whatever works to get the crowd moving. i did have a lot of fun with vinyl back in the day, but it was nice upgrading to cdjs so i could play my tunes more often without spending $$$$ on acetates. Ableton has been fun just allowing me to be more interactive with the tunes i'm playing. i dig it. definitely not for everyone. on the note of preplanning sets..why the fuck would you do that unless you have a wicked LIVE SHOW? Hell, people could preplan a set spinning vinyl..or cdjs. i never liked the idea of preplanning a set in general, you never know what the crowd is really gonna be into.

whatever i can play tunes on and get the crowd moving

collective wrote: You need to get out and see some better live pa(s) homey. 100% of the time when i play out I have no idea where I am going with it, and thats because I haven't limited myself to a singular medium.

I've seen plenty of good live pas, but they primarily consisted of analog gear. Know a guy that still does them with all the old roland boxes and others still using the electribes. I personally don't limit myself to a single medium, however I primarily play vinyl only just because 1) It sounds the best. 2) I primarily play old school jungle and everything is on vinyl only. 3) I'd rather spend thousands on vinyl than a laptop setup. Like I said, I could care less what people use as long as they are rocking. I don't think digital kills the vinyl culture as the purists and audiophiles will always be around. Also not worried about anyone stealing my gigs, cause I only play out once a month anymore and nobody else plays what I play. Digital just makes it a lot easier for there to be a lot more joker djs playing shitty mp3s they downloaded from soulseek or torrents. Probably just my area and my opinion is based on it, but there are equally as many good djs as there are bad. I'm all about live looping and chopping, but aside from a couple I have yet to see the digi-only djs in my area step up to that level. Most of the people that use Serato aren't pushing it to it's limits either. Beat juggling and looping is a breeze with cue and loop points, but few even touching it. Most use it because it's convenient and majority of the time they are putting their playlists together last minute early in the night while other djs are playing. Again, talking about my local scene only. I have enough controllers and material to do a live pa if I wanted and probably will move in that direction eventually, but it's just the initial investment that's holding me back along with the time it would take me to rip my vinyl collection. I've seen plenty of good DJs push the limits with various setups, and if you have the gear/software to do it you definitely should be, but locally it gets pretty toy and equivalent to dj hero. It's like some people just wake up in the morning and say they're going to be a dj, download some warez and mp3s, and somehow get a gig that night playing their ipod. I've seen it man, and it's hilarious. It just helps create the existence of bad djs much more quicker. Some reason it always reminds of Madness on Deltron 3030.

I went to see Anthony Rother live about 8 years ago (http://www.discogs.com/artist/Anthony+Rother) who was advertised as a live set. It was the first live electronic set I had gone to see in a club I think.

The guy had 3 synths, 2 drum machines and an Akai MPC with a foot pedal FX unit and a mic attached to his head. He did an hours set of music and was sweating like Nick Grifftin at Notting Hill Carnival. He really put on a great show and that was what I thought was live! I have seen dozen's of Ableton live sets and they bore the shit out of me even if I do like the tune:(

For me it is still vinyl only and CDs for unreleased tracks to play out. Sorry Ableton lovers.

I cannot help but think the guy behind that laptop is checking his email and playing solitaire. As much as he likes to jump around and look like he is really getting into he is playing with a fucking laptop! its not cool and totally distracts me from the audio.

You need to get out and see some better live pa(s) homey. 100% of the time when i play out I have no idea where I am going with it, and thats because I haven't limited myself to a singular medium.

sometimes, its full live pa, some times, its decks, efx and a drum machine, who knows, maybe a combo of all of them. get over the fact that people are starting to DJ in ableton, it won't kill the vinyl culture, they won't take your gigs unless they are better than you. Just keep doing what you do and stop caring about the posers. They will sort themselves out as one trick ponies.

FTW.

But, you have to admit, some live PAs suck worse then shitty Djs, its all about the individual here...