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Im using ableton too....

Is there really any difference from using the 3 split audio track buses from original source then summing them back together vs the send return trick vs using an instrument rack with 3 instances of synth each isolated to the three splits?

Is there a difference in sound or majorly taxing cpu or one being more difficult to resample or even organize?

I've only done it the way I mentioned first, audio track 1 with synth split to 3 buses of split freq and summed but i find it clutters up my space and if I group them then I do not have the same mixer controls on that group and constantly have to expand it to solo/mute or arm/record....

tylerblue wrote:Ableton has an audio effect rack called "Bass Split - Chorus"

Drop the effect rack on your bass channel, delete the chorus plugins if you wish, and voila.

Great thread - thanx for the tips - including this one ^^^^ Z.

liquid rockz wrote:in ableton theres a much easier way to archive this....

no need for three copies of your track....

just make a audio effect rack (i think theres even one in the presets to do that, i never use cause its so dead easy)

on this effect rack create three (or four or whatva) chains!

put a lopass on the first
put a locut and a hicut on the second
put a hipass on the third


frequencies and fx to taste

done

This. Also, If you have live 8, try soloing bands on the "multiband dynamics" to split the frequencies. this way you don't get the frequencies from the individual bands crossing over. Although, alot of times crossovers can be good. Just depends on what sound you want.

lil tip from the pros

Use a multi-band Compressor or limiter to split.
1. Send one instruments sound to 3-4 aux busses.
2.Add just ONE MB Comp or limiter to the original, turn sends off for now. make your 3-4 bands of splittage, soloing each band to make sure they are splitting at the desired frequencies.
3.Now copy and paste this compressor/limiter to each of the sends, soloing one band at a time, making sure you dont touch the bands this time else you will fudge its phase up.
4. Bypass the original MP Comp/Limiter, turn sends on again, turn off the output from the original synth/instrument. then buss all the 3-4 sends back together again into one channel. Now if done correctly, the split and merge should sound near identical to the original before the split.

Effect each band as desired and enjoy

Cheers Depone, will try that instead of EQ-ing. Always struggled with not cutting too much out of the sound with EQs anyway.

In FL just route one mixer track to 3 others, then route all those to a final bus...

parametric eq or fruity free filter if you need exacting frequencies... put on each of those you routed too...

youll end up with original signal on mixer track1, routed to 2,3,4, a filter on each of those, and a final master bus on 5.

boom.

Basic A wrote:In FL just route one mixer track to 3 others, then route all those to a final bus...

parametric eq or fruity free filter if you need exacting frequencies... put on each of those you routed too...

youll end up with original signal on mixer track1, routed to 2,3,4, a filter on each of those, and a final master bus on 5.

boom.

Thing is Basic, your not getting a clean cut as the curves of your cutoff actually miss parts of the audio. When using a MB something it has whats called a ... funk i cant remember what its called but basically its designed to split audio perfectly so that when the signal is summed back together its the same as the original.

This tut helps explain - http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=22244

Its because an EQ doesn't have the right curves for perfect splitting. I would make an example. but im far too tired

Depone wrote:
Its because an EQ doesn't have the right curves for perfect splitting.

I know that n... swhy I left the 'parametric eq OR free filter'... I was always under the impression that the difference between an EQ and a filter was that a filter takes no distinction in ripping the harmonics of something in half regardless of effect on phase, and eq has gradual cruves, something to do with you decrease voume you shift phase offset/time... Im fairly well sure, my logic here, is entirely wrong.

However.

What Im at is, your exactly right n I knew that much, an eq with a curve is going to create a doubling up at the points the 3 bands curves would overlap... Is the same true for filters, or was I on when I was thinking they are (basically) curveless?

Like i said, Ive seen this flaw in using an EQ, but filters? If filters are improper, is there a better way (that anyone knows of, in FL?)

Basic A wrote:

Depone wrote:
Its because an EQ doesn't have the right curves for perfect splitting.

I know that n... swhy I left the 'parametric eq OR free filter'... I was always under the impression that the difference between an EQ and a filter was that a filter takes no distinction in ripping the harmonics of something in half regardless of effect on phase, and eq has gradual cruves, something to do with you decrease voume you shift phase offset/time... Im fairly well sure, my logic here, is entirely wrong.

However.

What Im at is, your exactly right n I knew that much, an eq with a curve is going to create a doubling up at the points the 3 bands curves would overlap... Is the same true for filters, or was I on when I was thinking they are (basically) curveless?

Like i said, Ive seen this flaw in using an EQ, but filters? If filters are improper, is there a better way (that anyone knows of, in FL?)

Filter = EQ

As i have been trying to say. try the MB compressor technique. thou shall see thy light!

See i think you're getting a bit hung up on perfect filter types - unless youre summing it back together without any processing, its never going to sum back perfectly anyway.

Once you start processing various frequency bands, youre effectvily adding 3 or four different signals anyway !

Just use LP/HP filters at frequencies that sound good. Youre most likely want to cut the mud between 180-300hz ish anyway...

just my 2c

paradigm x wrote:See i think you're getting a bit hung up on perfect filter types - unless youre summing it back together without any processing, its never going to sum back perfectly anyway.

Once you start processing various frequency bands, youre effectvily adding 3 or four different signals anyway !

Just use LP/HP filters at frequencies that sound good. Youre most likely want to cut the mud between 180-300hz ish anyway...

just my 2c

My opinion too, plus where you get overlaps/missing parts is where you get stumbled upon magic sounds XD

Will have a look at Depone's idea though, I'm sure there are plenty of cases when you want perfect summing, and it is probably the more rigorous way of doing things

Took your word on multiband comp for splitting dude...

You lot who doubt it...

Muffucka is on too something with this.

Im just well anal about it i suppose.

Clean cuts makes clean sounds imo. regardless of the effect your going to add to the individual bands in the signal chain. Have you wondered how MB compression works? and why it sounds the same without compression (bypassed back n forth)?, its linear phase splitting with (i cant remember the name of the curve, its finite something, i think...) the perfect splitting curve. With filters you make notches and peaks that i dont like.

Depone wrote:Im just well anal about it i suppose.

Clean cuts makes clean sounds imo. regardless of the effect your going to add to the individual bands in the signal chain. Have you wondered how MB compression works? and why it sounds the same without compression (bypassed back n forth)?, its linear phase splitting with (i cant remember the name of the curve, its finite something, i think...) the perfect splitting curve. With filters you make notches and peaks that i dont like.

Im well aware of how mb comrpession works thanks. Its an internal process and the MB compressor 'knows' what phase shift each band goes thru so it can rebuild it.

However once you add additional processing to the mix it wont work anymore. Hows the MB filters going to know what additional phase shift has gone on at what frequencies?

It sounds like a simple solution to frequency splitting, i agree. I just dont uinderstand why people are so worried about linear phase reconstruction when theyre wapping theyre blines thru comps/distortion/bitcrushers and god knows what !



Peace.

paradigm x wrote:

Depone wrote:Im just well anal about it i suppose.

Clean cuts makes clean sounds imo. regardless of the effect your going to add to the individual bands in the signal chain. Have you wondered how MB compression works? and why it sounds the same without compression (bypassed back n forth)?, its linear phase splitting with (i cant remember the name of the curve, its finite something, i think...) the perfect splitting curve. With filters you make notches and peaks that i dont like.

Im well aware of how mb comrpession works thanks. Its an internal process and the MB compressor 'knows' what phase shift each band goes thru so it can rebuild it.

However once you add additional processing to the mix it wont work anymore. Hows the MB filters going to know what additional phase shift has gone on at what frequencies?

It sounds like a simple solution to frequency splitting, i agree. I just dont uinderstand why people are so worried about linear phase reconstruction when theyre wapping theyre blines thru comps/distortion/bitcrushers and god knows what !



Peace.

sorry wasnt trying to school you about MB compression. Im aware that after fx the splitting pretty much becomes redundant. Im just down with the MB split personally.

Nice one

I personally hardly ever faff too much with these sorts of shenanigans. Make a bline, bounce a version out of pure sine sub, and hipass the original. Job done. :=()

Can someone answer my question....is it better to do this in ableton by using seperate audio tracks and then sum together or by using sends. Is t the same difference? Is there any pros or cons to either method?

Secondly are you guys bouncing bass riffs and loops out of this to use in a sampler later or do you leave this setup for each song and just record midi or audio for the current project?

all equally valid techniques for removing the epidermis from a feline.

here is a splitting and spreading rack i built awhile back for ableton 8. uses multiband for splitting, and some chorus, phaser, etc etc...

**can't figure out how to upload on the forum like at other forums... not possible maybe? anyhow it is in my dropbox for a small time being... cheers.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1016695/%2Bverb ... 20boom.adg

id then hipass this around 110-150 and layer in a sub... fun stuff.

big thanks to depone... i downloaded his MB template for logic many moons ago and got the idea from him re: multiband. it is seriously guys, the way to go. zero phase issues with crossover points on various eqs!