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Many religious people oppose stem cell research, it could cure many fatal diseases.

Why the fuck should a potentially life saving medicinal movement have to prove itself to a cult of delusional cavemen. What do they know?

Religion impeaching progress...

oli90 wrote:Many religious people oppose stem cell research, it could cure many fatal diseases.

Why the fuck should a potentially life saving medicinal movement have to prove itself to a cult of delusional cavemen. What do they know?

Religion impeaching progress...

bingo

a lot more progress has been impeded by capitalism than from religion i reckon

we need a nikola tesla emoticon

parson wrote:a lot more progress has been impeded by capitalism than from religion i reckon

we need a nikola tesla emoticon

this is also true

oli90 wrote:I need to unalign myself with atheism.

It's become a religion in itself.


How does one opt out nowadays?


It's literally such an insignificant factor of life yet so many people are ruled by it.

not saying you're defective, don't know you, but this gotta be the most defective post i read in quite a while. to the point of retardedness. and yeah, "defective" is good choice of words here. and no, can't be bothered to explain more to people who genuinely don't know how to opt out atheism!

alien pimp wrote:

oli90 wrote:I need to unalign myself with atheism.

It's become a religion in itself.


How does one opt out nowadays?


It's literally such an insignificant factor of life yet so many people are ruled by it.

not saying you're defective, don't know you, but this gotta be the most defective post i read in quite a while. to the point of retardedness. and yeah, "defective" is good choice of words here. and no, can't be bothered to explain more to people who genuinely don't know how to opt out atheism!

I think you misunderstood his post.

Everyone's own beliefs form their personal religion.

I consider myself a free thinker, not an atheist or agnostic.

I once had a muslim teacher who was aghast that I had no religion. He was like "No! You must have a religion! It will give you direction in life and everything!". Wasn't even trying to draw me into Islam, just thought that I needed a religion of some sort to function, even if it was Christianity. I ended by saying "I'm a free thinker, shopping around."

Stop caring about what others make of it and just care about it yourself? I'm a pretty apathetic atheist and I couldn't give a rat's ass what stigma or belief system other people collectively attach to the word.

think you're talking about militant athiesm, not athiesm.

Why does anyone have to associate themselves with anything, are you not a free thinking individual? You don't have to wear a badge stating your *beliefs or lack of.

Pedro Sánchez wrote:Why does anyone have to associate themselves with anything, are you not a free thinking individual? You don't have to wear a badge stating your *beliefs or lack of.

Ayeeeeeeeee man, on that wavelength. To go a bit further into my tickings...

Thinking and beliefs are two seperate tings which a lot o people don't seem to realise. Thought is like a gentle river where as belief is more like the rigid walls of a man made canal or the pooled sources of some skanky resevoir

I mean.... Definition of belief:
"Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true.[1]"

Does intelligence really need this adhesion?

Now here's thought:
"Thoughts are forms conceived in the mind, rather than the forms perceived through the five senses. Thought and thinking are the processes by which these concepts are perceived and manipulated. Thinking allows beings to model the world and to represent it according to their objectives, plans, ends and desires. Similar concepts and processes include cognition, sentience, consciousness, ideas, and imagination.[1]"

Don't be fooled that they're interchangable or replacable tings when the simple observer can see the detrimental and embalming effect 'belief' can have on 'thought' (and vice versa if you're open to the dualistic idea that some people see 'thought' as a threat to belief)

Some of you guys seem to be ignoring (or simply don't know about) the role religion has played in the advancement of human knowledge and humanistic projects, even political revolution.

The English Revolution was when the people usurped the power of the king. The people who won out of this were the landowners but they could not have done it without the support of ordinary folk and radicals like the Levellers and others who justified and legitimised their egalitarian aspirations by appealing to Bible verse. Bear in mind that the Bible was only recently translated into English for the first time which allowed more people to give emphasis to aspects of it which they felt was most relevant to them and how it should be interpreted, e.g. the meek shall inherit the earth.

Another example would be Isaac Newton, who everybody knows as this great rationalist but what fewer people know is that much of his work was motivated by his commitment to alchemy and a quest to discover "God's template" for creation and thus prove his existence.

Final example, liberation theology. This was a movement in Latin America that sought to free individuals from the oppression of poverty and exploitation and was such a threat to North American hegemony that they had to crush it. It was even referred to it as more dangerous than communism!

So really, enough ignorance about religion - it is an important part of our history and is not always a force of reaction, an atheist is not by definition more progressive.

im not really an "athiest" but i dont believe in god, its mainly cos im lazy and dont care

religous type, some enjoy to knock on your door "god is real"
me : "yeah well i dont care"

atheist type who bitches about religous people: "god is fake"
mee "yeah well i dont care"
its easier if you ignore religion when talking to people, means you dont get into a half hour discussion about belief and stuff

it's not like isaac newton is any kind of anomaly either. he's just real famous for being an alchemist.

parson wrote:it's not like isaac newton is any kind of anomaly either. he's just real famous for being an alchemist.

Sure, I just thought he was an example people could relate to easily

BLAHBLAHJAH wrote:

Pedro Sánchez wrote:Why does anyone have to associate themselves with anything, are you not a free thinking individual? You don't have to wear a badge stating your *beliefs or lack of.

Ayeeeeeeeee man, on that wavelength. To go a bit further into my tickings...

Thinking and beliefs are two seperate tings which a lot o people don't seem to realise. Thought is like a gentle river where as belief is more like the rigid walls of a man made canal or the pooled sources of some skanky resevoir

I mean.... Definition of belief:
"Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true.[1]"

Does intelligence really need this adhesion?

Now here's thought:
"Thoughts are forms conceived in the mind, rather than the forms perceived through the five senses. Thought and thinking are the processes by which these concepts are perceived and manipulated. Thinking allows beings to model the world and to represent it according to their objectives, plans, ends and desires. Similar concepts and processes include cognition, sentience, consciousness, ideas, and imagination.[1]"

Don't be fooled that they're interchangable or replacable tings when the simple observer can see the detrimental and embalming effect 'belief' can have on 'thought' (and vice versa if you're open to the dualistic idea that some people see 'thought' as a threat to belief)

I can sympathise with what you're saying but ultimately we are tethered to various beliefs whether we acknowledge them or not, and it is through this filter that we formulate our thoughts. Beliefs are also fluid, however, not static. Our minds do not float free and uncorrupted in the ether as the 'philosopher kings' envisaged in ancient Greece.

the acid never lies wrote:Some of you guys seem to be ignoring (or simply don't know about) the role religion has played in the advancement of human knowledge and humanistic projects, even political revolution.

The English Revolution was when the people usurped the power of the king. The people who won out of this were the landowners but they could not have done it without the support of ordinary folk and radicals like the Levellers and others who justified and legitimised their egalitarian aspirations by appealing to Bible verse. Bear in mind that the Bible was only recently translated into English for the first time which allowed more people to give emphasis to aspects of it which they felt was most relevant to them and how it should be interpreted, e.g. the meek shall inherit the earth.

Another example would be Isaac Newton, who everybody knows as this great rationalist but what fewer people know is that much of his work was motivated by his commitment to alchemy and a quest to discover "God's template" for creation and thus prove his existence.

Final example, liberation theology. This was a movement in Latin America that sought to free individuals from the oppression of poverty and exploitation and was such a threat to North American hegemony that they had to crush it. It was even referred to it as more dangerous than communism!

So really, enough ignorance about religion - it is an important part of our history and is not always a force of reaction, an atheist is not by definition more progressive.

I think it's important to take a balanced view. The very same religion(s) you used in your examples above also proved to be horrendous setbacks to development and progress. At the same time, on the other side of the planet, religion played a very different, moderate role. At the end of the day, it's down to what the masses decide to do with religion since deities don't really comment much on the subject.

i dont believe in religions,its a divider or people,such as in scotland where i live theres a non stop battles between catholics and protestants,jehovas witnesses arnt supposed to associate with anyone outwith there religeon, im agnostic,ive had laods of bad experiences in my life thats lead me away from god,but im not sure if theres a god or not. but religion is aload of shit to me.

kay wrote:I think it's important to take a balanced view. The very same religion(s) you used in your examples above also proved to be horrendous setbacks to development and progress. At the same time, on the other side of the planet, religion played a very different, moderate role. At the end of the day, it's down to what the masses decide to do with religion since deities don't really comment much on the subject.

My overarching point was that 'religion' is a false enemy. It is simply a mistake to say that if there was no religion we would be unimpeded - plenty of "horrendous setbacks to development and progress" have occurred in secular societies along ultra rationalist lines (the USSR under Stalin, for example).

I am not sure why you juxtapose the worst face of religion with 'moderate' religion. I think it is unfortunate that we enter this discourse when, for example talking about Good Muslim vs. Bad Muslim as if they are on a scale from 'moderate' to 'extreme'. Liberation theology was demonised, as I have said, as a force of fanaticism and subversion in order to justify its suppression. An uncompromising set of values or morals is not necessarily a bad thing and can encourage cohesion and solidarity in a community.

That is not to say that religion should be immune to criticism, but I think it is important when dealing with issues to attack the behaviour rather than religion as a whole, especially since religious and cultural practices are often impossible to distinguish.

I personally do not associate myself with any religion. Despite being raised Jewish and even Bar Mitzvah'd, I do not believe in a supreme power or being. To me, many people turn to religion for a set of morals and a guide as to how they should lead their life. I follow my own set of morals and likely could fit into many different religions based upon what I see as right and wrong. I have no quarrels with religious people, aside from extremists. (Fuck you Westboro Baptist Church and terrorists!) If religion helps you get through every day, then that's great. I just don't feel like I need a guide to live my life by.

Another thing that really confuses me is all this afterlife stuff. Lets say, HYPOTHETICALLY, that something you do in the Muslim religion earns you a spot in heaven, but that same action would land you smack in the pits of Christian hell. How could they possibly argue that their beliefs are correct? Would I go to hell for not believing in God? Or would nothing happen because I don't believe in hell?

Basically, do whatever works for you as long as you don't hurt anyone else or try to force your beliefs upon them.